Jacktheawesome's Fuckin' Awesome Classical Music

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Jacktheawesome
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Re: Jacktheawesome's Fuckin' Awesome Classical Music

Post by Jacktheawesome » Sun Jul 01, 2012 4:20 am

Rewjeo wrote:I don't have problems writing fast bowed stuff with the Garritan sounds, myself. Of course, if I take something I wrote with the Finale MIDIs and then switch it to Garritan, it definitely has that problem. Oh, the big thing for me is that the solo sounds are way way way way better than the Finale solo sounds.
Well I have no experience with it; I'm just going off of Garritan demos I've heard. Well that makes sense. Well that's another of Finale's problems though, it doesn't really have solo sounds. It has "violin." One problem I encounter often is that my eight woodwinds will overpower my string section, when we both know that this is impossible. I think the addition of a parameter for number of instruments at the beginning would be a simple and dramatic improvement to Finale.
Rewjeo wrote:I've done a tiny bit with synth (like four years ago) and other than that I've only done stuff with strings because I struggle to get brass/woodwinds/percussion to really work. I suppose I could call something a symphony with just two violin parts, viola, cello, and bass technically... But I was under the impression that you needed more than that for something to be a symphony. Truth be told, I don't understand naming conventions for music at all. I haven't had any real composition training other than sitting down going over my pieces with my violin teacher. Thus all my pieces are named "String 7" or "Quartet 4" and I just kinda do stuff as I do it.
Yeah, I'm pretty sure that a string orchestra would suffice. The definition of a symphony is pretty lax. "Some sort of extended work performed by some sort of relatively sizable orchestra, and at least one movement is usually in sonata form, but not necessarily, and it usually has four movements, but really just whatever bro," is I think the best you can really do. Other than symphony, I'm pretty sure that a concerto is a work for a solo instrument backed by orchestral accompaniment, and a sonata is the same, but with no accompaniment, or light accompaniment. I'm not so great with them either.
Rewjeo wrote:Always add violin. Always. Speaking of which, you play violin, too? Cool.
Hellz yeah. Plus, I already finished a double sonata for harp and violin, and they go great together. Maybe I'll put that up. Yep. 11 years. Probably the only reason I got into composing.
Rewjeo wrote:You could see if you can apply directions for using a different sound system with Finale to that one. IIRC from setting up Garritan, there's just one or two files you need to put in the right place and then in the Finale MIDI menu choose "Play from VST" and then do stuff with the "Instrument Setup"->"VST instruments" to pick the sounds. I would guess it's basically the same process as with Garritan. Oh, which version of Finale are you using, out of curiosity?
Yeah, I'll just have to toy around with it. It is possible, and it's something like that. I'm using Finale Printmusic 2011.
Rewjeo wrote:Mountain King thing: So much In the Hall going on here.
Hahaha I know, right? I really like that piece, though, so I almost can't help but like my march because of its similarity to it. The form of it is just so simple and genius. If only I came up with it first.
Rewjeo wrote:The only thing that really sticks out as weird to me right now is the ending. I think you should just hold that last chord until it fades out rather than building up again there. There were a few other places where you definitely went a different direction than I was expecting (i.e. 5:30 was building up to a way less cheery section in my brain than in yours) but I thought it worked with the exception of the end.
The ending is a bit odd, but I kind of wanted that strong emphasis on the motif there at the end. I thought it kind of tied the piece together. Yeah, the cheery bit was sort of out of left field. That's what makes it a rhapsody though, so I'm ok with it.
Rewjeo wrote:I really liked it once the pizzicato started going, but something felt a little weird for a lot of what was before that. I'm trying to put my finger on what it was. It feels kinda like there wasn't enough bass going on, but I'm not very confident that that's what was really bugging me there.
Yeah, I liked that bit. Hm. I'm not sure. It has a pretty strong bass, so I don't know. Let me know if you do figure it out, though. I'm trying to get a little fugato going, at what is currently the end bit. I've never done one before, so it's not going great.

Sonata for Harp and Violin
I wrote this when I didn't really know how to write. Most of it still holds up surprisingly well, though.
Last edited by Jacktheawesome on Sun Jul 22, 2012 9:03 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Jacktheawesome's Fuckin' Awesome Classical Music

Post by Rewjeo » Sun Jul 01, 2012 9:57 am

Jacktheawesome wrote:Well I have no experience with it; I'm just going off of Garritan demos I've heard. Well that makes sense. Well that's another of Finale's problems though, it doesn't really have solo sounds. It has "violin." One problem I encounter often is that my eight woodwinds will overpower my string section, when we both know that this is impossible. I think the addition of a parameter for number of instruments at the beginning would be a simple and dramatic improvement to Finale.
Aren't the "violin," "viola," etc. the solo sounds? I mean, they don't really sound like the instruments, but they don't sound like multiple instruments.
You can tweak volume levels in the mixer, but that does sounds like a really great feature to have.
Yeah, I'm pretty sure that a string orchestra would suffice. The definition of a symphony is pretty lax. "Some sort of extended work performed by some sort of relatively sizable orchestra, and at least one movement is usually in sonata form, but not necessarily, and it usually has four movements, but really just whatever bro," is I think the best you can really do. Other than symphony, I'm pretty sure that a concerto is a work for a solo instrument backed by orchestral accompaniment, and a sonata is the same, but with no accompaniment, or light accompaniment. I'm not so great with them either.
I don't tend to write things in movements. I just take a ~four minute chunk and leave it separate from other stuff. I've done it a little bit in quartets, but I'm not sure how I feel about doing movements. I kinda feel like if they're separate enough to be different movements, then they aren't really connected to the other bits by more than just the key signature, so why should I group them together based on that?
Hellz yeah. Plus, I already finished a double sonata for harp and violin, and they go great together. Maybe I'll put that up. Yep. 11 years. Probably the only reason I got into composing.
And then you and your friend could actually play it together, too.
I've only been playing for eight, but it's the reason I got into composing, too.
The ending is a bit odd, but I kind of wanted that strong emphasis on the motif there at the end. I thought it kind of tied the piece together. Yeah, the cheery bit was sort of out of left field. That's what makes it a rhapsody though, so I'm ok with it.
It just feels weird to me, and that bit right before it struck me as a good ending by itself.
Yeah, that bit's not bad, just sort of out of left field.
Yeah, I liked that bit. Hm. I'm not sure. It has a pretty strong bass, so I don't know. Let me know if you do figure it out, though. I'm trying to get a little fugato going, at what is currently the end bit. I've never done one before, so it's not going great.
Well, I listened to it again and whatever problem I was having before I'm not now. So it was just weird because I was tired. There are a few small sections that feel too classical for me, but other than those few spots I quite like it.
Sonata for Harp and Violin
I wrote this when I didn't really know how to write. Most of it still holds up surprisingly well, though.
Well, I must say I like the section starting at 1:00, although it is VERY reminiscent of something which I can't quite put my finger on. Other than that, a lot of it actually reminds me of music I would hear in the background while playing Civilization.

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Re: Jacktheawesome's Fuckin' Awesome Classical Music

Post by Korban3 » Sun Jul 01, 2012 3:20 pm

Back from camping, late response to question.
I've got a WIP of it. It's sort of a mish-mash of rock and synth. Not sure what to call it, since it isn't much for rock either.
It still needs a lot of tweaking and editing. Not only that, but I hate how badly it flows from the intro into the crappy melody. And the mixing is all out of whack. I also need to work on the transition out of the drum set beat, and then back into the rock feel for the ending.
[/heavy self criticism]
https://www.dropbox.com/s/5hs7ekiyxn1ylok/Magic.mp3

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Re: Jacktheawesome's Fuckin' Awesome Classical Music

Post by Jacktheawesome » Sun Jul 01, 2012 4:33 pm

Rewjeo wrote:
Jacktheawesome wrote:Well I have no experience with it; I'm just going off of Garritan demos I've heard. Well that makes sense. Well that's another of Finale's problems though, it doesn't really have solo sounds. It has "violin." One problem I encounter often is that my eight woodwinds will overpower my string section, when we both know that this is impossible. I think the addition of a parameter for number of instruments at the beginning would be a simple and dramatic improvement to Finale.
Aren't the "violin," "viola," etc. the solo sounds? I mean, they don't really sound like the instruments, but they don't sound like multiple instruments.
You can tweak volume levels in the mixer, but that does sounds like a really great feature to have.
They've always sounded to me like they're supposed to be a section. But that may be the point, that it's a bit ambiguous. Yeah, but that's just volume. The sense of scale comes from subtle differences in pitch, and that would really make an awesome sound.
Rewjeo wrote:
Yeah, I'm pretty sure that a string orchestra would suffice. The definition of a symphony is pretty lax. "Some sort of extended work performed by some sort of relatively sizable orchestra, and at least one movement is usually in sonata form, but not necessarily, and it usually has four movements, but really just whatever bro," is I think the best you can really do. Other than symphony, I'm pretty sure that a concerto is a work for a solo instrument backed by orchestral accompaniment, and a sonata is the same, but with no accompaniment, or light accompaniment. I'm not so great with them either.
I don't tend to write things in movements. I just take a ~four minute chunk and leave it separate from other stuff. I've done it a little bit in quartets, but I'm not sure how I feel about doing movements. I kinda feel like if they're separate enough to be different movements, then they aren't really connected to the other bits by more than just the key signature, so why should I group them together based on that?
Well the point of a symphony, or really any multi-movement piece, is that the movements are tied together by a central, defining theme. It could be a motif, it could be a melody, it could be lots of things. That takes practice, but if you listen to symphonies by the great composers, the movements are always related, no matter how different they are.
Rewjeo wrote:
Hellz yeah. Plus, I already finished a double sonata for harp and violin, and they go great together. Maybe I'll put that up. Yep. 11 years. Probably the only reason I got into composing.
And then you and your friend could actually play it together, too.
I've only been playing for eight, but it's the reason I got into composing, too.
Yeah, that's what I hoped. Unfortunately, we're in different cities now. Good to have some duet piece around anyways, though.
Rewjeo wrote:
Yeah, I liked that bit. Hm. I'm not sure. It has a pretty strong bass, so I don't know. Let me know if you do figure it out, though. I'm trying to get a little fugato going, at what is currently the end bit. I've never done one before, so it's not going great.
Well, I listened to it again and whatever problem I was having before I'm not now. So it was just weird because I was tired. There are a few small sections that feel too classical for me, but other than those few spots I quite like it.
Well, cool :) Thanks, I'll keep working on it.
Rewjeo wrote:
Sonata for Harp and Violin
I wrote this when I didn't really know how to write. Most of it still holds up surprisingly well, though.
Well, I must say I like the section starting at 1:00, although it is VERY reminiscent of something which I can't quite put my finger on. Other than that, a lot of it actually reminds me of music I would hear in the background while playing Civilization.
Well I searched for something like my piece in the Civ soundtrack, found this instead, and stopped.

Korban3 wrote:Back from camping, late response to question.
I've got a WIP of it. It's sort of a mish-mash of rock and synth. Not sure what to call it, since it isn't much for rock either.
It still needs a lot of tweaking and editing. Not only that, but I hate how badly it flows from the intro into the crappy melody. And the mixing is all out of whack. I also need to work on the transition out of the drum set beat, and then back into the rock feel for the ending.
[/heavy self criticism]
https://www.dropbox.com/s/5hs7ekiyxn1ylok/Magic.mp3
I liked it. I think you should expand it more, though. As it stands, you have one progression, and one melody that you repeat. Perhaps but a B section in, and a bridge. Develop the melody a bit.

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Re: Jacktheawesome's Fuckin' Awesome Classical Music

Post by Rewjeo » Sun Jul 01, 2012 5:14 pm

I always assumed it was solo instruments, myself, but maybe not, I guess.
The mixer can at least fix some balance issues, like strings being too quiet, but there's definitely more to it than volume, as you said.

I have done a little with a consistent theme throughout, but not much. I dunno, it's just not my thing to write drawn out pieces like that, I guess.

Of course you found Baba Yetu when you looked for Civ music :P . But that reminds me, I'm setting "Calling All Dawns" to play right now. Anyways, I think, although it has been years, that I'm thinking of music that played during the 17/1800s in Civ III... maybe...

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Re: Jacktheawesome's Fuckin' Awesome Classical Music

Post by Korban3 » Sun Jul 01, 2012 6:21 pm

Thanks, I do plan on extending it a bit.

Ok, done hijacking this thread.
*vrooms away*

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Re: Jacktheawesome's Fuckin' Awesome Classical Music

Post by Jacktheawesome » Mon Jul 02, 2012 4:30 pm

Rewjeo wrote:I always assumed it was solo instruments, myself, but maybe not, I guess.
The mixer can at least fix some balance issues, like strings being too quiet, but there's definitely more to it than volume, as you said.

I have done a little with a consistent theme throughout, but not much. I dunno, it's just not my thing to write drawn out pieces like that, I guess.

Of course you found Baba Yetu when you looked for Civ music :P . But that reminds me, I'm setting "Calling All Dawns" to play right now. Anyways, I think, although it has been years, that I'm thinking of music that played during the 17/1800s in Civ III... maybe...
Well the wind instruments (including brass) do sound solo. But the strings to me sound a bit chorused. And that makes sense; you'll only have like two flutes, oboes, clarinets and bassoons, three trumpets, four horns, and the like, but string sections are like 12-16 instruments. Yeah, I toy around with the mixer. Choirs bug me the most, I think. a SATB group is completely overpowered by the rest of the orchestra. That may be true for four singers, but a whole choir is going to be almost as loud. Grr. Finale.

Yeah. I haven't been really successful ever of making a consistent theme, but my goal is to one day make something along the lines of Beethoven's 9th, or Dvorak's 9th: a huge, epic, unified, piece. I'm listening to Calling All Dawns now. Someone get that man a real orchestra.

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Re: Jacktheawesome's Fuckin' Awesome Classical Music

Post by zzwerty » Fri Jul 06, 2012 3:33 am

The woodwind stuff is great, how about you get together some sort of community orchestra online, like what Wolfire has for overgrowth? That would be fun.
I could donate my amazing Daxophone skills if you like, might pair up nicely with the woodwind piece actually, even though it's not woodwind.

Here's a video of a Daxophone made by the inventor if you like, him doing a concert in german:

And another by a guy describing and demonstrating the instrument in a more musical form:

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Re: Jacktheawesome's Fuckin' Awesome Classical Music

Post by Jacktheawesome » Mon Jul 09, 2012 1:27 am

I'm doing some arrangements for string quartet of the Divertissement from Tchaikovsky's Nutcracker ballet. I've only the dance of the clowns to go.
Spanish Dance
Arabian Dance
Chinese Dance
Russian Dance
Dance of the Toy Flutes
zzwerty wrote:The woodwind stuff is great, how about you get together some sort of community orchestra online, like what Wolfire has for overgrowth? That would be fun.
I could donate my amazing Daxophone skills if you like, might pair up nicely with the woodwind piece actually, even though it's not woodwind.

Here's a video of a Daxophone made by the inventor if you like, him doing a concert in german:

And another by a guy describing and demonstrating the instrument in a more musical form:
I don't know, if other composers on here are interested I'm interested. :)
That sounds cool! Just tell me and I'll send you the score to it.
Last edited by Jacktheawesome on Sun Jul 22, 2012 9:03 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Jacktheawesome's Fuckin' Awesome Classical Music

Post by Rewjeo » Mon Jul 09, 2012 12:02 pm

For the new arrangements, well I guess I don't have too much to say. They don't radically change the sound of the pieces, and I'm not the biggest fan of the Nutcracker myself to begin with. But good work with arranging stuff. I haven't tried much of that, myself. Not my strong suit...

Whoa, daxophone. Now you've got me looking at all kinds of cool new instruments. Why don't I have the time and money to play all these things?

Also, if you want to hear what my compositions sound like, here are some: http://soundcloud.com/rewjeo/sets/string-music

Some are more WIP than others (a certain one is very clearly WIP) but nonetheless, there they are.

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Re: Jacktheawesome's Fuckin' Awesome Classical Music

Post by Jacktheawesome » Mon Jul 09, 2012 10:24 pm

Yeah, I mean that's what I was going for: to capture the feel of the piece with a string quartet. Hm. I'm not a huge fan of a lot of Tchaikovsky's work, but the Nutcracker amazes me. Thanks! Yeah, I split my time pretty evenly between composing, arranging, and copying scores into Finale.

Ooh. Nice. I liked the first and third, especially. The second sounded a bit stilted and awkward to me. I'm not quite sure what it was, but it just didn't really flow, you know?
They had a sort of poppy sound to them; I haven't really heard that in string music. Is that what you were going for?

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Re: Jacktheawesome's Fuckin' Awesome Classical Music

Post by Rewjeo » Mon Jul 09, 2012 11:13 pm

There are some things in the Nutcracker that are really good, but some, and maybe it's just because I've heard them SO many times, feel really bland to me. But it definitely captured the original feel, so you succeeded at that. Copying scores in? I'm far too lazy to do that. Done it on occasion, and it sucked.

The second one is weird, yeah. I put it in there because I had the .wav on hand, but it is absolutely the weakest of the bunch. It has some good melodies, but, well, I need to find a new way to work them into stuff if I want to use them. Actually, I listened through some of my old stuff today, and I have written some pretty awesome melodies, if the pieces were lacking in other ways. I think I've gotten away from building stuff around distinct melodies and tweaking those melodies around. It was a good reminder. I'm probably going to spend time redoing stuff (including one which I could try working woodwinds/brass into :o ) now.
Well, I'm definitely more influenced by modern music than you are, but I don't know that I'd call them "poppy," if only because modern pop music largely disgusts me on various levels. The first part of the third piece was directly influenced by my sister's music, though.
Any thoughts on the last two? Those actually tend to be people's favorites.

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Re: Jacktheawesome's Fuckin' Awesome Classical Music

Post by Anton » Tue Jul 10, 2012 1:07 pm

The funny thing about the Nutcracker is that even Tchaikovsky hated it, while writing it. There were some funny quotes about how he thought it was the worst music he had ever written, or something like that.

Jackson, I've been listening to all your stuff, and I'm impressed. Nice work. :) You do know that Finale comes with a meager set of the Garritan library you can use as well, right? I've never been a fan of any libraries from that collection, but if you wanted to, you could swing by I and I can walk you through some of that setup. Or if you have any other Finale questions in general.

Rewjeo, I'm about to listen to the music on your soundcloud page, excited to check it out! I have a lot of modern influence in my music (at least when I have the time to write classical music) and so I'm excited to hear what you do!

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Re: Jacktheawesome's Fuckin' Awesome Classical Music

Post by Rewjeo » Tue Jul 10, 2012 2:21 pm

Smart man, Tchaikovsky.

I thought it was just the full Finale that has stuff in it. Can you get it with Printmusic, too?

omg a real professional composer is looking at my stuff :oops: I hope you enjoy it! I should actually have something new up soon. I found my String Quartet 1 (2-4 are on there, although 4 is maybe becoming a quintet and really more like three pieces anyways. I'm just really unorganized in writing music) and it has some cool stuff in there. It just needs some fixing, which I'm doing right now.
Last edited by Rewjeo on Tue Jul 10, 2012 6:57 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Jacktheawesome's Fuckin' Awesome Classical Music

Post by Jacktheawesome » Tue Jul 10, 2012 6:37 pm

Rewjeo wrote:There are some things in the Nutcracker that are really good, but some, and maybe it's just because I've heard them SO many times, feel really bland to me. But it definitely captured the original feel, so you succeeded at that. Copying scores in? I'm far too lazy to do that. Done it on occasion, and it sucked.

The second one is weird, yeah. I put it in there because I had the .wav on hand, but it is absolutely the weakest of the bunch. It has some good melodies, but, well, I need to find a new way to work them into stuff if I want to use them. Actually, I listened through some of my old stuff today, and I have written some pretty awesome melodies, if the pieces were lacking in other ways. I think I've gotten away from building stuff around distinct melodies and tweaking those melodies around. It was a good reminder. I'm probably going to spend time redoing stuff (including one which I could try working woodwinds/brass into :o ) now.
Well, I'm definitely more influenced by modern music than you are, but I don't know that I'd call them "poppy," if only because modern pop music largely disgusts me on various levels. The first part of the third piece was directly influenced by my sister's music, though.
Any thoughts on the last two? Those actually tend to be people's favorites.
Hm. I don't know. I guess you do hear a lot of it. Well, I don't copy whole scores in, just excerpts usually.

Ah. Yeah, I know what you mean. There's so much good, useable stuff buried in old, horribly orchestrated and harmonized stuff of mine. Well yes! Do that! And then post them! I guess I'll start posting progress on all my new stuff here.

Well to me pop music doesn't really represent specific artists, as I would agree that current pop music is terrible. It just has more modern qualities to it, and to me uses some musical devices and more common in non-classical styles of music.

I like the second to last one, for sure. It was definitely the most complete-sounding, and had the best use of the instruments. I liked what you did with the last one, but it wasn't as much to my taste.
Anton wrote:The funny thing about the Nutcracker is that even Tchaikovsky hated it, while writing it. There were some funny quotes about how he thought it was the worst music he had ever written, or something like that.

Jackson, I've been listening to all your stuff, and I'm impressed. Nice work. :) You do know that Finale comes with a meager set of the Garritan library you can use as well, right? I've never been a fan of any libraries from that collection, but if you wanted to, you could swing by I and I can walk you through some of that setup. Or if you have any other Finale questions in general.

Rewjeo, I'm about to listen to the music on your soundcloud page, excited to check it out! I have a lot of modern influence in my music (at least when I have the time to write classical music) and so I'm excited to hear what you do!
Anton! I was hoping you'd show up. Thanks! :) Unfortunately, as Rew said, that's only with Finale 2012, which is a bit above my budget. I have Printmusic 2011, which is short a few features. Funnily enough, I still prefer the Finale strings to the Garritan strings. The rest of the sounds seem to be pretty good, though. Do you use Finale in your work? It seems like I usually see you using Ableton Live in your demo videos.

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