Humble THQ bundle

Anything else
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Assaultman67
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Re: Humble THQ bundle

Post by Assaultman67 » Sun Dec 02, 2012 5:45 pm

David wrote:... I'm sure it was a hard decision to make an exception to two of the founding principles of the bundle, and alienate some of the original bundle supporters, but it would have been a mistake to pass up such an important opportunity ...
I agree with everything above other than it being a hard decision.
Incolta wrote:... Also the dick part of my brain wants to point out that THQ is more of a publisher than a developer :P
Volition does most of their shit. The guys I know work at volition.
MOM4Evr wrote:... The tl;dr version would have to be: "Ohman, a different Humble Bundle? I hate difference! Difference bad! Me no like difference!" http://youtu.be/5OB8EYKXAys?t=9m7s
About 6 or so years ago, I may have been on the other side of this debate.

Because, Ironically, 6 or 7 years ago I was talking about Volition/THQ's decisions.

I was a huge Red Faction fanatic, released a handful of maps, several dozen that never were released and made quite a few maps and models in this Red Faction mod for UT2k4.

I remember practically frothing at the mouth when Red Faction: Guerrilla came out saying that the changes they were making to the red faction franchise. However, I was wrong. They were simply trying to adapt to what they thought the majority audience would want to sell their game, not cater to a small niche of extremely enthusiastic gamers. I was too close to the issue and felt personally betrayed, not that I would of admitted it.

This same thing happened on a larger scale to the apple community as they transferred from the smaller niche crowd to the globally popular technology goliath that it is today.

This is going to happen to Wolfire/HBI at some point in the future or they will go bankrupt.
Kame wrote:Helps fund the Humble Store and other indie services (The millions of dollars they've gotten from their other bundles wasn't enough for that?)
You can never have too much profit as a company. I used to hate companies for this but now its just like "Hey, that's kinda what they set out to do in the first place.".
Kame wrote:Could help THQ out of a rough spot.
Oh god, could you imagine what that would mean if THQ basically managed to stay solvent because of the indie bundle? It would imply that the entire financial strategy of charging $40 a pop for games isn't economical aka, more volume vs price is more profitable. (not that they will stay solvent.)
Kame wrote:Helps prove that pay-what-you-want can work with big-budget games (helps prove that people don't really care if something is DRM free or not)
I definitely wouldn't say that. THQ is undermining their own future by selling their games dirt cheap because they do not believe they have a future.
Kame wrote:Proves people don't care about DRM
I think the majority don't care so long as they don't see it disrupt their gameplay. It's when you see shit like the Assassins creed II drm (I believe that is the correct game.) where people who legitimately bought the game are struggling to play it and the people who pirated the game have already been playing it for a week.
Kame wrote:Proves people don't care about cross platform
Linux is a very small market. The effort of developing for that market is usually more tedious than the reward of being able to cater to that market. If you fix that issue you will see more games for linux.
Kame wrote:Proves HBI will completely sell out whatever their original intent was for money
HBI is backed by some pretty fucking smart people. I sometimes envy how business savy they are. They know they don't have the budget to produce triple AAA games and back it with a huge marketing budget. So they basically generate as much attention as possible through other means. Some not even associated to their product. Their whole marketing strategy is essentially screaming "HEY LOOOK AT MEEEEEEE! IM OVER HERE! HEEEEEY!" in a sea of people.

I was once arrogant and ignorant enough to believe that all you needed to be successful is to simply produce an awesome game and people would spread it around via word of mouth. That simply doesn't happen. Your audience will not do the marketing aspect for you.

The only unfortunate thing is although their marketing is strong, their game is relative weak in terms of being easily presentable to a large audience. (sorry to say guys, I basically preordered overgrowth just to check out the engine.)

It's basically an open world button masher featuring anthropomorphic rabbits, wolves, and cats. That's a weird game to sell to a large audience.

Tl;Dr: I've ranted too much. I'm gonna go play Saints Row III now.

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adwuga
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Re: Humble THQ bundle

Post by adwuga » Sun Dec 02, 2012 6:32 pm

I agree with mostly everything you said, but OG isn't a button masher. That gets you killed most times. But the point still stands, the premise of OG isn't marketable to a global audience. Also, OG isn't really advertised through the Humble Bundles, it isn't affiliated with Humble anymore, and the only people who know the connection are the people who know of OG through other means.

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Re: Humble THQ bundle

Post by nullsmack » Sun Dec 02, 2012 6:35 pm

I just want to say that I've avoided all other copy-cat indie bundles in the past mainly because none of them care at all about providing games for anything other than Windows. That's also the same reason why I've mostly ignored the steam keys for the Humble Bundle games because I'm more interested in having the DRM free games unattached from a Steam account. I also gave in and bought the THQ bundle mainly because if you are comparing it to a Steam sale, rather than a Humble Bundle, it's not a bad deal. But now if Valve decided that I'm a bad guy, or someone stole my Steam account and got me banned then all the Steam games I've bought are tied to that and I'll not have access to them anymore. That's why DRM free is important to me.
According to some people who think that the Humble Bundle isn't particularly about DRM free or supporting games on other platforms, it's mostly a charity thing. I've normally left the sliders at the default. This time, since it's not about drm-free or games on linux, I put the slider all the way to charity. I kinda doubt that if THQ gets any money off of this bundle that they are going to do anything other than give the "higher ups" a golden parachute.

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zzwerty
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Re: Humble THQ bundle

Post by zzwerty » Mon Dec 03, 2012 1:24 am

I just like to clarify again that I am not against Humble Bundle supporting THQ, just that they did it with the Humble Bundle name. Maybe they should've just called it the THQ Charity Bundle or something?

FreeBooteR
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Re: Humble THQ bundle

Post by FreeBooteR » Mon Dec 03, 2012 2:01 am

If there is no Linux client i don't buy it. I use Archlinux only and there is no point buying the software if it isn't supported.So when you have a bundle that supports Linux across the board, and i think the titles are worth my time, i'll buy it. I've no interest or motivation to use that other OS.

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Assaultman67
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Re: Humble THQ bundle

Post by Assaultman67 » Mon Dec 03, 2012 3:18 am

zzwerty wrote:I just like to clarify again that I am not against Humble Bundle supporting THQ, just that they did it with the Humble Bundle name. Maybe they should've just called it the THQ Charity Bundle or something?
Because going broke apparently doesn't qualify you as being "humbled".

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Glabbit
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Re: Humble THQ bundle

Post by Glabbit » Mon Dec 03, 2012 5:06 am

Y'know what, perhaps I shouldn't have said anything. There's nothing wrong, per se, with the whole, but I feel even my nitpicky annoyances made me look like quite the selfish prick.
That's not how I want to be remembered.

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Assaultman67
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Re: Humble THQ bundle

Post by Assaultman67 » Mon Dec 03, 2012 8:47 am

All I heard was "remember Glabbit as a selfish prick." :P

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Re: Humble THQ bundle

Post by GothaBlutauge » Mon Dec 03, 2012 9:17 am

Most of my points, why I don't like the THQ bundle were already told.


But there is one point, I'm really angry about:
"It's allright, it helps charity."

O'RLY?!
Everything spends some money to charity. Microsoft, Apple, I'm pretty sure event the mafia does.
Spending money to charity is good. But it doesn't make you "good".

If you only want some more money spend to charity, just call Microsoft, EA or whoever you want. Just say "Hey, why don't you just spend a million to charity?". They'd say "Why not, nice idea! Just don't blame Origin for something and please stop still silly drm-free-indie-crap. Really, who wants to play a stupid bunny? We're making a copy of our older shooters with new graphics, be sure to buy it!". The next day you will read in your newspaper "EA spend a million to charity! They surely are the good ones!". They will do it, they got the money.

Little note: I'm also spending money to charity. So be sure that everything in this post is true and can't be criticized.



I don't buy it, because I don't want to be forced to have third-party-software on my computer to play games. But it seems, that people like to be forced.
The Humble Bundle forced you to "not need third-party-software". Until the THQ-Bundle.

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underthedeep
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Re: Humble THQ bundle

Post by underthedeep » Mon Dec 03, 2012 10:17 am

i am really appalled at peoples general nature to be conflicted when a cheap game deal comes around and doesn't have ports for all platforms. it's not the end of the world, or the end of humble bundles being DRM free in the future. It may be a new step but i don't think they will be doing a bundle for EA anytime soon. i think it's very HUMBLE of them to help THQ out, i guess that is something that is hard to grasp when it's not YOUR company going under and YOU aren't losing your job.

it's okay guys your whining will for sure keep the next bundle on track :roll:

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Re: Humble THQ bundle

Post by Kristian » Mon Dec 03, 2012 11:56 am

SirPrimalform wrote:
David wrote: I'm sure it was a hard decision to make an exception to two of the founding principles of the bundle, and alienate some of the original bundle supporters, but it would have been a mistake to pass up such an important opportunity.

What do you think would be a better way to handle bundles like this in the future? Should they always have an ultimatum of Linux and DRM-free or nothing, or is there some middle ground for quality games that can't be ported?
My problem with this is that it has weakened Humble Bundle's position. Recent bundles prior to this one have featured DRM-free (and cross platform) debuts from games involved. SPAZ and Jamestown for example only became DRM-free because of the bundle. SPAZ had online activation if bought from the developer and Jamestown was Steam exclusive.

Now Humble Bundle's stance has been weakened, some devs may just say "Why do I have to release a DRM-free version of my game? I'll just wait and be in the next Steam only bundle you do".
Sure there'll be DRM-free cross platform bundles, maybe even the majority will be DRM-free and cross platform... but as long as the option to be Steam only in a Humble Bundle exists, the DRM-free movement has lost a powerful ally. One who previously was able to convince developers to remove DRM.*

So... to answer your final question... I think the only way for HB to regain the power they had is to readopt their old stance publicly. I don't mean release a bundle that is DRM-free and cross platform, I mean issue a statement to the effect that there will be no more Steam only Windows bundles.

*I've focussed mainly on the DRM-free aspect as it is closer to my heart, but the cross platform one was just as important overall.
Exactly this is the issue. It used to be the case that the Humble Bundle was a huge driver for DRM-free, cross-platform gaming. For example the all the games in Humble Indie Bundle V made their Linux debut with the bundle. But I don't see how that can happen any more. I am afraid several developers will just wait for the next Windows only bundle. From what I can tell Humble Bundle has thrown out their bargaining position for getting games that ported to Linux(and Mac) and for getting DRM removed. Other developers will want the same treatment as THQ has gotten. I am afraid this will mean fewer DRM free, cross-platform games than we would otherwise have gotten.

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Re: Humble THQ bundle

Post by underthedeep » Mon Dec 03, 2012 1:34 pm

Image


I wouldn't jump to any conclusions until the next bundle comes out. they seem to know what they are doing, and they probably expected this kind of reaction.

i'm only GUESSING that the next bundle is gonna be DRM free and cross-platform like the other bundles. i wouldn't go so far as to shut out HIB because ONE of their AWESOME BUNDLES isn't appealing to me and different from the others.

when a band i really dig makes a lame-ass song i just skip the track and check out the rest of the songs on the album, know what i mean?

i don't see it as them selling out, i see it as them trying something new.

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Re: Humble THQ bundle

Post by SirPrimalform » Mon Dec 03, 2012 1:47 pm

underthedeep wrote: I wouldn't jump to any conclusions until the next bundle comes out. they seem to know what they are doing, and they probably expected this kind of reaction.

i'm only GUESSING that the next bundle is gonna be DRM free and cross-platform like the other bundles. i wouldn't go so far as to shut out HIB because ONE of their AWESOME BUNDLES isn't appealing to me and different from the others.

when a band i really dig makes a lame-ass song i just skip the track and check out the rest of the songs on the album, know what i mean?

i don't see it as them selling out, i see it as them trying something new.
This isn't a case of "they made a bundle I disagree with and now I don't like them", I'm just worried that they won't be able to convince as many developers to release their games DRM-free any more.

Jumping to conclusions would be saying "Well that's it, I'm done with Humble Bundles because they'll all be rubbish from now on" and all I said boils down to "Hmm, I'm concerned that this might have a knock on affect and make future bundles slightly less awesome than they could have been". I didn't say I was going to boycott them or anything.

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Assaultman67
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Re: Humble THQ bundle

Post by Assaultman67 » Mon Dec 03, 2012 1:51 pm

They're kinda selling out ...

However, I don't think that's a bad thing really.
underthedeep wrote:i am really appalled at peoples general nature to be conflicted when a cheap game deal comes around and doesn't have ports for all platforms. it's not the end of the world, or the end of humble bundles being DRM free in the future. It may be a new step but i don't think they will be doing a bundle for EA anytime soon. :roll:
...

I'd be willing to be HBI would do an EA bundle given the chance.

As for the reactions people are having. People tend to do that with change in the things they're emotionally invested in.

Wolfire/HBI need to do what they feel is necessary to get ahead with their business, and if it means pushing a few shitty titles it means pushing a few shitty titles.

If they let all these opportunities just sail by because they have bad opinions of these people, they will go bankrupt.

Also, before you start frothing at the mouth, ask yourself, if you were in their position. What would you do?
Kristian wrote:... I am afraid several developers will just wait for the next Windows only bundle. From what I can tell Humble Bundle has thrown out their bargaining position for getting games that ported to Linux(and Mac) and for getting DRM removed. Other developers will want the same treatment as THQ has gotten. I am afraid this will mean fewer DRM free, cross-platform games than we would otherwise have gotten.
Fairly valid point. The only rebuttal I have is ... how much barganing power does Wolfire really have?

I'd be willing to bet that the other developers simply complied because they agreed, not because they were co-hearsed to do it.

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Re: Humble THQ bundle

Post by underthedeep » Mon Dec 03, 2012 2:05 pm

well if no ones read this before they probably should, might make y'all feel better :)
In a response to Ars, Humble Bundle co-founder John Graham assured users the company will "never stop creating Humble Indie Bundles... and the other bundle types we've successfully launched this year. But we’re also eager to see if our pay-what-you-want plus charity model meshes with critically acclaimed AAA content as well."

Graham said the new THQ bundle did not represent a permanent departure from the company's indie roots, and that the company may even release a third indie bundle this year. "This year has also been a year of many experiments for us that fall outside the traditional Humble Indie Bundle framework," Graham told us. "We’re very excited to be able to offer the gaming community a massive sale with blockbuster content and raise money for charity at the same time. We will of course continue to support indies content as a core of our business."

Regarding the lack of Mac and Linux ports this time around, Graham said plainly that, "in the case of this promotion, it would not have been possible for us to deliver this blockbuster content via other means." But Graham also promised the Humble Bundle "will not cease in our quest to bring awesome content to Mac and Linux and Android," and pointed out that the Humble eBook Bundle contained the first digital publication of Neil Gaiman's graphic novel Signal to Noise.


source/sauce: http://arstechnica.com/gaming/2012/11/h ... eputation/

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