Bioshock: Infinite Discussion *SPOILERS AHEAD*

[Sandurz]

I don't have enough time to read the whole thread, but I'll answer what I think I know.

The handymen and Songbird both use technologies stolen through a tear by Fink, who also stole vigors (plasmids) from Rapture. He talks about it in a voxophone.

The theory I like best about the whole paradox at the end is that Elizabeth kills Booker before he can make the choice to be baptized in every universe where he becomes Comstock. This does a kind of hard reset on the multiverse (self explanatory I hope) where the gambling Booker exists but Comstock doesn't. So, Booker gets to keep Anna, Elizabeth and Comstock never exist, and Booker gets to search around through trashcans to pay off his debt.

[Renegade_Turner]

The handymen and Songbird both use technologies stolen through a tear by Fink, who also stole vigors (plasmids) from Rapture. He talks about it in a voxophone.

Yeah I was thinking the handymen were taken from Rapture's big daddies the same way the vigors were. Also Fink's brother seemed to be stealing music from the 60's-80's. I heard a soul number I can't remember and Girls Just Wanna Have Fun playing from through a tear in his apartment.

[Assaultman67]

...he prime one being that, if Booker DeWitt did seek salvation and an absolvence of his sins, it would then be as if he never committed them, but still finds them reproachful. I think this is why he (as Comstock) calls it the "sodom below". He sees America as man at his most wicked, which is why he builds Columbia towards the point of laying waste to the lands below. He sees that as his duty, as a way of payment for his sins against his fellow man at the battle of Wounded Knee, in some way. He just takes salvation in the most vile of ways...

I missed this earlier (actually I just can't keep up :S)

If Comstock sees america as man at its worst, why praise the founding fathers? Why praise america at all? (There are statues of Benjamin Franklin, George Washington, and I think Thomas Jefferson? Cant remember the third statue at the very beginning of the game. Anyways, They were all founding fathers of America.)

Booker DeWitt was in two battles (Wounded Knee and the Boxer Rebellion, wounded knee wasn't even a battle, more of a massacre.) where he killed non-white people and he deeply regrets it. It is implied that he recognizes these non white people as human and thus feels guilty about killing them. Enough so that he seeks out to have his sins cleansed. Oddly, the people of Columbia are *really* racist. Why would Booker DeWitt cleanse his sins, thus becoming a reformed man, and then become the leader of the super racists and commit worse atrocities on minorities and America in general?

Also, It seems Columbia's only beef with America is it's growing acceptance of non-white people as time goes on.

The more I think about it, the less this game makes sense.

Was Booker's rebirth as Comstock really just the realization that "minorities are not people! I did nothing wrong!"?

(also it is important to note that Comstock's Patriots are George Washington (1st president, and a general during the american revolution) where as Fitzroy's Patriots are Abraham Lincoln (Freed slaves after the American Civil War).)

[Renegade_Turner]

Oh really? I guess I saw all that differently to you. Maybe I missed something. I never saw anything in the game about America's growing acceptance of other races. Did I miss a voxophone again? lol

[Assaultman67]

There is nothing explicitly stated about america's growing acceptance of races.

It more implicitly defined by the passage of time from the early 1900's to 1980's.

I was just trying to rationalize Columbia seceding and eventually attacking the US and somehow integrate that with the obvious racism going on in columbia.

[Renegade_Turner]

Well it's the very early 1900's in America and it's still heavily racist all across the US at the start of the 20th century so I think that's taking a tad of a liberty with the inference. Not saying you're wrong, I just didn't see anything there to imply that, and yes Columbia is obviously racist but most of the US was at that time too.

[Assaultman67]

When America gets attacked its the 1980's when racism isn't as prevalent.

If the game wasn't "let's fight against a racist future!" Then the game makes less sense than I originally thought and I don't know what it was about. :/

[Renegade_Turner]

Is it? But the majority of the game is set in the early 1900's, specifically 1912. And in 1912 they're still calling America the sodom below.

[Assaultman67]

They don't outright attack it until the 1980's though suggesting a growing nonacceptance of America over time.

Ask yourself, Why is it the sodom below? What is different about the culture in Columbia than America at the same period?

[Renegade_Turner]

I dunno. Columbia at the time has a generally very happy and peaceful society. Except for the blacks and the Irish. But America is fairly violent. Although Columbia ends up being that too. That's the way I see things. Before the violent uprising of the Vox Populi and Booker DeWitt they basically have no problems.

[Assaultman67]

So you think that Comstock sort of went mad with power and took things too far similar to Fitzroy did.

Basically becoming the thing they hated.

Maybe that's a theme? Becoming the thing you hate the most.

Fitzroy became a violent psychopath similar to Comstock.

Booker DeWitt became Comstock.

Elizabeth originally followed in Comstock's footsteps.

Comstock went from a passive leader to a violent leader.

(Maybe I'm just reading too much into it and should just be appreciating it for its visually artistic value alone.)

[Freshbite]

What are you doing, Bryan!? How can you question this game's awesomeness? You are not allowed to have your own opinion. You shall blindly take in the good and filter out the bad, always. No! I-I mean! There is no bad!


... You're not overthinking it. This is what they want us to do.

[Glabbit]

I like how this thread's title, whilst originally intended as "Discussion on Bioshock: Infinite", can be so easily read as "Infinite Discussion on Bioshock".

Oh yes, and spoilers are a thing.