What people belive is true on these forums

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Usagi
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Post by Usagi » Fri Jan 19, 2007 11:47 am

GaGrin, I think your attitude is extreme but understandable. And I agree with some of it.

I agree that suicide is a waste, and a permanent solution to a temporary problem. And it's hella weird and devastating to friends and family, people to whom you have some obligation.

If someone can't feel that, and they really feel that suicide is a good answer, then they're kinda fucked up upstairs, and need some help. They at least deserve a sympathetic hearing, not your rejection and disgust.

Of course, sometimes that's all that's required to snap someone out of a dopey funk. But other times people are truly depressed and hurtin', and it's no joke.

I've considered suicide many times, but I've promised myself I'll never do it. It helps to make that commitment, at least for me.

I'm like Woody Allen: I'm not afraid of dying, I just don't want to be there when it happens. And I don't want to achieve immortality through my work: I want to achieve it through living forever. There's too much cool stuff coming up in the next century.

Jokes aside, I believe in the right for critically ill folks to self-euthanize, but I couldn't help do it.

GaGrin, if and when you have direct experience of a loved one killing themselves, dead and gone forever, you may have a slight change of heart. You'll still have anger and disappointment, but there will also be pity and sorrow and self-regret: why didn't, why couldn't I prevent it?

On the other hand, you can't let yourself be manipulated by the threat. All you can do is say, "That will make me very sad if you do it, but I can't let you use the threat to control me." It's a bad deal all round.

As for solitary confinement, I also don't agree with that. It's what I'd call cruel and unusual punishment, which is against our bill of rights here in the US, and I think it would delay rehabilitation. But I do agree with making prison more restrictive, as long as it doesn't drive the cost too high. It's expensive to not be able to handle people in larger groups sometimes.

In feudal Japan, every crime was a capitol one: if you were convicted, you died, sometimes horribly. Of course, they thought they'd be back soon.

We've already discussed execution, but it brings up guilt and innocence. When can you be sure? I'd rather let a few guilty ones go to avoid killing or hurting an innocent, rather than the other way around: kill a few innocents to get all the guilty.

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GaGrin
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Post by GaGrin » Fri Jan 19, 2007 6:09 pm

Usagi wrote:If someone can't feel that, and they really feel that suicide is a good answer, then they're kinda fucked up upstairs, and need some help. They at least deserve a sympathetic hearing, not your rejection and disgust.
I realise this is the case and I think I may have made it sound like my outward reaction is more extreme than it actually is - but that is what I think about it everytime I hear someone (anyone) say they are thinking of killing themselves - "you stupid twat".

I will always support and help the ones I love when ever i can no matter their state of mind - but I do tell them that I will be unable to mourn for them or feel anything but anger when they are gone should they actually kill themselves. Because I know thats its true. I have a large capacity to retain and focus anger and while I realise it is not entirely rational the act of self-harm is something that brings out some of that rage in me. Self extermination just opens the floodgates.
Usagi wrote:I'm like Woody Allen: I'm not afraid of dying, I just don't want to be there when it happens. And I don't want to achieve immortality through my work: I want to achieve it through living forever. There's too much cool stuff coming up in the next century.
Yeh. I'll take immortality through work, but I'm damn going to try and live forever.

But I'd like to quote myself from a particularly poetic mood some years ago now:

"Inner beauty, escapes and is given form;
The true joy of life, and the secret of immortality."
- Me 2005


I'm a Games Art student btw so if you put this in context...

http://gagrin.deviantart.com/

For those interested in seeing a selection of my better work (most of which I'm sure i'll hate now I go and look back at it - and I really need to get round to posting again :P)

EDIT: I've been to a silly number of funerals for someone my age (at least it seems silly to me) because most of my family members have been long lived I have seen my great-grandparents buried, seen a relative I barely knew cremated after dying of cancer (of the pancreas I think) and an old childhood friend of the family who we'd lost contact with who was tragically killed in a car accident. I'm 21 - I've not experienced any great tragedy in my life but I have come to understand that people die - all people and all the time. Maybe that goes someway to explaining why i think the way I do.
Last edited by GaGrin on Fri Jan 19, 2007 6:59 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Renegade_Turner
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Post by Renegade_Turner » Fri Jan 19, 2007 6:24 pm

That whole gods existing just because people believe in them sounds a lot like the exact way it is in the Discworld series by Terry Pratchett. In his books, the more belief a god gained, the more powerful they got. Also, there was a Temple of Small Gods. Bleh I dunno he might have got this theory from somewhere else. It's not actually what he believed, it's just how it was in the series.

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Post by zatoichi » Fri Jan 19, 2007 6:57 pm

heh, I love Terry Pratchett. He always comes up with cool little laws like that. And Death is the best character ever.

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Post by BunnyWithStick » Fri Jan 19, 2007 7:34 pm

Renegade_Turner wrote:…in the Discworld series by Terry Pratchett. In his books, the more belief a god gained, the more powerful they got.
The Populous games also have that.

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Usagi
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Post by Usagi » Fri Jan 19, 2007 11:33 pm

zatoichi wrote:heh, I love Terry Pratchett. He always comes up with cool little laws like that. And Death is the best character ever.
I love death, but I've been loving the Mac Nac Feegles more lately.

That's full size chicken egg he's got: they're small but fierce!

Image
Crivens! I kicked meself in ma ain heid!

I got a Death figure from somebody who went to England and visited a TP store. And I met TP at a book signing. He goes to so many he can't shake your hand or look at a camera flash, and he wears a brace on his wrist so he doesn't get carpal tunnel.

He doesn't actually seem that happy any more.

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Renegade_Turner
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Post by Renegade_Turner » Sun Jan 21, 2007 7:30 am

Yeah, I wouldn't like to have to do so much at his age either.

Did you see the made-for-TV two-part film of The Hogfather? I didn't watch it myself but my brothers did.

My favourite book, I'd say, waaas...The Truth.

As far as characters go, I always loved Rincewind. Death was cool too, because he makes such...witty and sarcastic comments.

And of course, everyone has to love Corporal Nobby Nobbs.

Remember Mr. Pin and Mr. Tulip? The Firm or something, what'd they call themselves? They were legends.

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Post by Esen » Sun Jan 21, 2007 11:34 am

Just thought I'd add

Do we even really need any god at all? its not like theres any effect of a god on earth anyway

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Post by tallyl.iii » Sun Jan 21, 2007 12:15 pm

We need God to justify and explain our existence as well as keep ourselves humble of course.

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Usagi
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Post by Usagi » Sun Jan 21, 2007 12:45 pm

Esen wrote:Do we even really need any god at all? its not like theres any effect of a god on earth anyway
tallyl.iii wrote:We need God to justify and explain our existence as well as keep ourselves humble of course.
It's not workin'; not with me, anyway.

Ask Silb what Pierre-Simon, Marquis de Laplace, said about this hypothesis.

PS: Actually, further research reveals that the quote may not be real; but it still matches my belief. I also found out PS was a total suck-up and self-serving flip-flopper. After Nappy made him a count, he voted to depose him and became a Catholic, toadying to the new king. Some atheistic Freethinker!1! Bah!11

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Post by Jeff » Sun Jan 21, 2007 1:54 pm

tallyl.iii wrote:We need God to justify and explain our existence as well as keep ourselves humble of course.
Why?

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Post by invertin » Sun Jan 21, 2007 4:14 pm

God does effect earth, but only in small albiet helpful ways, have you ever prayed to god and have your prayer answered? I know I have, if he gave us everything we would depend on him and that would just be rude. Life is about learning, if god did everything for us we wouldn't have any problems, thus no mistakes to learn from, or anything worth learning. Think, if you were god, would you do everything for mankind? I have Tragox and while it may be imaginary, in my mind it's as real as the comp I type on and even as god there I don't do everything for the Trigons, or the Volcon, or anything! I do something small and the rest is up for them to work out. Amen

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Post by Viking Zippy » Sun Jan 21, 2007 4:41 pm

Jeff wrote:
tallyl.iii wrote:We need God to justify and explain our existence as well as keep ourselves humble of course.
Why?
Presumably 'we' being certain people, since I'm sure there are plenty of atheists out there who can justify their existence.

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Post by tallyl.iii » Sun Jan 21, 2007 4:55 pm

It was intended in a semi-sarcastic way. I am essentially atheistic and feel that people must justify their own existence with their actions rather than believe they have some divine mission.

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BunnyWithStick
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Post by BunnyWithStick » Sun Jan 21, 2007 6:41 pm

That was weird, somehow, when I posted it ended up in Zantalos's name…

Oh, crap, the weird button placement strikes again! Sorry. :?

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