randomness

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Ragdollmaster
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Re: randomness

Post by Ragdollmaster » Sat Jan 03, 2015 10:03 pm

Endoperez wrote:You spread rumours, slander, falsehoods, partial truths, occasionally outright lies, and then claim you 'inform'. Don't you care about ethics in how people talk about games? I do! I hate seeing someone disrespect it like this. You make all gamers look bad by association. You are ruining things
#GamerGate summed up in a paragraph

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Phoenixwarrior141
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Re: randomness

Post by Phoenixwarrior141 » Sun Jan 04, 2015 3:18 pm

Endoperez wrote:
Phoenixwarrior141 wrote: 1: That seems like a lot of excess work. Fact checking isn't hard, and I've gotten by fine without doing it. My posts aren't reliable, but they work.
2: I can hide messages?
3: Lies? I think lying would be intentionally twisting the truth, or making it up. I'm just presenting a portion of the story, that's not bad in any sense.
I didn't even notice this at first.

1 what. NO!
Problem?

2. Friends and foes. Only non-mods can be ignored. All pre-Os are 'mods'.
I need to use this more.
You spread rumours,
So do you.
slander,
I died laughing.
partial truths,
(PHILOSOPHICAL RANT AHEAD)
Truths can not be partial.
Don't you care about ethics in how people talk about games? I do!
Not the vibe I'm getting. I'm getting you care about the feels of everyone who isn't a white male gamergater. Regardless of how insane that could be (Shirtstorm and the guy who downloaded and edited the CP on 8Chan).

I hate seeing someone disrespect it like this.
My opinions on you and feminism.
You make all gamers look bad by association. You are ruining things.
Bullshit. Gamers won't benefit from sitting down letting social justice spread all over our hobby. We don't care if we look bad because we aren't the shits who are constantly subservient to the constantly on about "Muh feelz" because they hide under the guise of social justice.

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Endoperez
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Re: randomness

Post by Endoperez » Sun Jan 04, 2015 4:13 pm

You honestly don't see anything wrong in being wrong? Constantly, without even trying not to be wrong?


I can't think of any rumors I've spread. Perhaps the rumour that you spread rumors etc? I generally try to state my sources, or that I don't know if something is true.

Slander: you are right, that was wrong. I meant libel, the written defamation. See also what you said about Zoe Quinn ages ago.

Partial truths:
"the truth, the whole truth and nothing but the truth"
If partial and whole truth didn't exist, why do courts assume they do? See also "the guy who downloaded and edited CP".

Caring about feels is ethical. Can you describe any ethical system where it doesn't matter if your actions harm or cause displeasure for others? For example 'act towards others as you'd like others to act towards you'.

Who or what does feminism disrespect?

I care and I game and before GamerGate I'd gladly have called myself a gamer. Even if you don't care, why are you allowed to ignore those gamers who do care? If you think it's wrong to generalize gators, it should be true to gamers as well.

I believe movements such as feminism make some good points that can improve games. Last of Us brought in an interesting fathee-daughter relationship, Tomb Raider reimagined an old classic with style, Overwatch characters are more interesting IMO than Team Fortress 2's. Also feminism isn't driving a single opinion, see thoughts pro and con Lara Croft, Bayonetta, etc...

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Phoenixwarrior141
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Re: randomness

Post by Phoenixwarrior141 » Sun Jan 04, 2015 8:03 pm

[YouTube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=pl ... aiCQw#t=46[/YouTube]
Geez. Gaters are the problem.
"If gamers are a race, it's time for another holocaust"
Still the bad guy here.

"I call for the mandatory abortion of all pro game "women"
Stiiiiill the bad guy.

"FartToContinue I'm going to stab you multiple times if you don't stop targeting defenseless women"
Still the bad guy, who makes games a worse place.

"You fucking slut, you should shut your damn whore mouth about gg. You're betraying your own goddamn kind you're so fucking stupid. Know that we know where you live. Mexico [ADDRESS REDACTED]. I know your full address and if you don't stop your bs I will release it. Have fun with the cartels you slut. I hope they rape you good so you know your fucking place. Then you can believe feminsim now."
...
Still the bad guy.
Still.
The bad guy.
Not the people who wrote these tweets.
Me. And other gaters.
Not the harassers and hypocrites.
Me.


Endoperez wrote:You honestly don't see anything wrong in being wrong? Constantly, without even trying not to be wrong?
When I present enough of the truth from a GG supporter (But not member) standpoint, yes I think the costs are totally worth it in the end.


I can't think of any rumors I've spread. Perhaps the rumour that you spread rumors etc? I generally try to state my sources, or that I don't know if something is true.
Probably that, I could find more if I dug.


Slander: you are right, that was wrong. I meant libel, the written defamation. See also what you said about Zoe Quinn ages ago.
Considering the claims against Zoe were found perfectly reasonable, I think I was in the right if only slightly.
Not much wrong with that.
Partial truths:
"the truth, the whole truth and nothing but the truth"
If partial and whole truth didn't exist, why do courts assume they do? See also "the guy who downloaded and edited CP".
Because whole truths do exist.
Partial truths cannot exist (Parts of the truth can) because then the truth isn't 100% correct, and thus isn't a truth.

In the words of Avitus:
"IT'S A LIE"
Caring about feels is ethical.
Never said it didn't.
Can you describe any ethical system where it doesn't matter if your actions harm or cause displeasure for others? For example 'act towards others as you'd like others to act towards you'.
The one where men and women aren't children anymore and can deal with an insult thrown across the internet because it doesn't matter.
That one.
Tell me if this is reasonable:

Kid opens up a lemonade stand which donates to charity for fun.
Lemonade stand gets a few fans.
A big CEO guy of Total Biscuits incorporated approves of the charity, and also supports an atheist group.
Kid breaks down because now a lot of people will donate and it's more then he can handle, from a group he doesn't support.
Kid shuts the lemonade stand down and doesn't donate the money.
Kid begins a slander campaign against the atheist movement and Total Biscuit incorporated.
(Alternate Ending)Kid's campaign succeeds.
CEO shoots himself.
Kid gives no fucks.
End.[/spoiler]

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Endoperez
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Re: randomness

Post by Endoperez » Mon Jan 05, 2015 1:21 am

Phoenixwarrior141 wrote: Still the bad guy.
Still.
The bad guy.
Not the people who wrote these tweets.
Me. And other gaters.
Not the harassers and hypocrites.
Me.
Yes, saying those things about GG is wrong. Even if some of them were meant ironically, it was wrong because it looks like harassment and that's wrong. GamerGate the movement is also wrong, because it fails to even condemn that sort of harassment

What was it you said? It doesn't matter, grow a thicker skin? Complaining now makes you a hypocrite.

I know there are people I disagree with, on both sides. GamerGate's opponents get much worse harassment according to what I've seen. As a group, that is. I've seen few very ugly cases of harassment aimed at gamergate proponents, worse than what many people against GG have received, and I condemned it and was happy to see other people condemn that too.

You? You say the things you did sounded reasonable so it's right even if it was wrong, and it doesn't matter...

Endoperez wrote:You honestly don't see anything wrong in being wrong? Constantly, without even trying not to be wrong?
When I present enough of the truth from a GG supporter (But not member) standpoint, yes I think the costs are totally worth it in the end.
"Truth?" You admitted you don't bother with facts. Your "truths" are rumors at best! Repeating them doesn't change that.

GG supporter is GG member because it's a leaderless movement. When I refer to gamergaters, I mean people who talk its talk and don't condemn those who walk its walk - the walk of doxxing, harassment and such.
Slander: you are right, that was wrong. I meant libel, the written defamation. See also what you said about Zoe Quinn ages ago.
Considering the claims against Zoe were found perfectly reasonable, I think I was in the right if only slightly.
Not much wrong with that.
You were wrong, and claimed things that were not true! You are delusional if you think that makes you right!


Shitty, dishonest careers deserve to be made into living hell-s or ended entirely. Zoe will suffer both, and it will be deserved.
forums.wolfire.com/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=31045&start=15#p224112

That is wrong...
Because whole truths do exist.
Partial truths cannot exist (Parts of the truth can) because then the truth isn't 100% correct, and thus isn't a truth.
One of the things I warm my students about is being aware of partial truths. That is, when a story presents only some of the facts while leaving out others that might be quite relevant to interpreting and understanding the events in question.

https://aphilosopher.wordpress.com/2008 ... al-truths/
Caring about feels is ethical.
Never said it didn't.
You said I was wrong for feeling. Ethics is used to tell what is right. Ethical action is a right action, so how is it wrong?
Can you describe any ethical system where it doesn't matter if your actions harm or cause displeasure for others? For example 'act towards others as you'd like others to act towards you'.
The one where men and women aren't children anymore and can deal with an insult thrown across the internet because it doesn't matter.
That one.
Insults make one sad.
Feelings matter.
Insult affect feelings, so insults matter.

Also if caring about feels is ethical, anything that claims otherwise can't be ethical.

Your morality is logically unsound.

Tell me if this is reasonable:

Kid opens up a lemonade stand which donates to charity for fun.
Lemonade stand gets a few fans.
A big CEO guy of Total Biscuits incorporated approves of the charity, and also supports an atheist group.
Kid breaks down because now a lot of people will donate and it's more then he can handle, from a group he doesn't support.
Kid shuts the lemonade stand down and doesn't donate the money.
Kid begins a slander campaign against the atheist movement and Total Biscuit incorporated.
(Alternate Ending)Kid's campaign succeeds.
CEO shoots himself.
Kid gives no fucks.
End.[/spoiler]

Both made mistakes. The first mistake was the insulting way the charity runners reacted to the retweet.

If insults didn't matter this whole thing wouldn't have happened!

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rodeje25
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Re: randomness

Post by rodeje25 » Mon Jan 05, 2015 5:04 pm

this randomness topic turned into an argument? c'mon i've had enough of those arguments after the feminism argument when david had an argument with totalbiscuit

that's a lot of arguments

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Re: randomness

Post by Phoenixwarrior141 » Mon Jan 05, 2015 8:11 pm

Off topic rant:
No Male Heroes.
Fuck off.
Fuck the developer.
Fuck all who approve.
Fuck you for liking it.
Endoperez wrote: Yes, saying those things about GG is wrong. Even if some of them were meant ironically, it was wrong because it looks like harassment and that's wrong.
Looks?
"I'll stab you multiple times"
"I hope the cartels rape you"
"I call for the mandatory abortion of all pro game women"
Yes, looks.

GamerGate the movement is also wrong, because it fails to even condemn that sort of harassment
Feminism fails as well. It actually promotes it.

Plus, what makes GamerGate wrong because it doesn't go around lynching, raping and stabbing (Then using the corpse as a gate) anyone who actually harasses someone? It's not like they go "Yup, go fucking nuts!".
Feminism does however.

What was it you said? It doesn't matter, grow a thicker skin? Complaining now makes you a hypocrite.
I wasn't complaining. I was going "I'm the bad guy while someone threatens to stab someone else because Feminism. Riiiiiiggght".
I know there are people I disagree with, on both sides. GamerGate's opponents get much worse harassment according to what I've seen. As a group, that is.
Died laughing again.
Yes, the following suggestions are popular:
"We kill all gamers and use the corpse to make a gate."
"We make a new industry where cis men aren't allowed in."
"Gamer holocaust."

Riiiigggghht.


"Truth?" You admitted you don't bother with facts. Your "truths" are rumors at best! Repeating them doesn't change that.
I should say the same to you. Repeating that GG is evil doesn't make it true, especially while KotakuInAction remains relatively "Clean".

GG supporter is GG member because it's a leaderless movement. When I refer to gamergaters, I mean people who talk its talk and don't condemn those who walk its walk - the walk of doxxing, harassment and such.
1: Not entirely. I don't do any thing related to GG. I watch from the sidelines shouting "GO GAMERGATE!".
2: What do you mean condemn? You want me to get a friend who can trace IPs and start gunning anyone down who harasses anyone? Y
3: Then I'm still not a gater.

You were wrong, and claimed things that were not true! You are delusional if you think that makes you right!


Shitty, dishonest careers deserve to be made into living hell-s or ended entirely. Zoe will suffer both, and it will be deserved.
forums.wolfire.com/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=31045&start=15#p224112

That is wrong...
That's not slander. That's me saying something negative about Zoe.
Of course, anything short of dick-sucking is slander/harassment/misogyny. So, I should probably check my privilege as a male patriarchal slave.
I'm either getting more delusional as this goes on, or your arguments are becoming more Tumblr-y.

One of the things I warm my students about is being aware of partial truths. That is, when a story presents only some of the facts while leaving out others that might be quite relevant to interpreting and understanding the events in question.

https://aphilosopher.wordpress.com/2008 ... al-truths/
That would be part of the truth. But anyways.


You said I was wrong for feeling. Ethics is used to tell what is right. Ethical action is a right action, so how is it wrong?
Because you were feeling for someone who is sensitive as shit, and over-reacting. Caring about feeling is basic human decency, but being sensitive is just being a bitch.

Insults make one sad.
Feelings matter.
Insult affect feelings, so insults matter.

Also if caring about feels is ethical, anything that claims otherwise can't be ethical.

Your morality is logically unsound.
My morality is twisted, depraved and deranged. So you're being generous.
Yes, Insults make one sad.
Being sensitive is stupid. So you need to learn to be more resistant to the insults.
That's ethical.

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Phoenixwarrior141
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Re: randomness

Post by Phoenixwarrior141 » Mon Jan 05, 2015 8:57 pm

Uhhhh...

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Retarded Username
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redacted

Post by Retarded Username » Mon Jan 05, 2015 10:27 pm

redacted

Also, endo, why do you keep doing this?
I mean, it's nice and all from your part to give phoenix the attention he craves so much, but what do you get from it?
I'm serious, I do want to know.

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Re: randomness

Post by Grayswandir » Mon Jan 05, 2015 10:46 pm

As much fun as it is to talk about someone behind their back in front of them, it would have been a better choice to PM endo and ask him there.


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Phoenixwarrior141
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Re: redacted

Post by Phoenixwarrior141 » Mon Jan 05, 2015 11:06 pm

Retarded Username wrote: I mean, it's nice and all from your part to give phoenix the attention he craves so much, but what do you get from it?
I'm serious, I do want to know.
I don't crave attention, I want money, women, giant houses and attention from people who are insignificant in comparison to me who try to make a meager living off "Journalism" which is constantly reminding themselves how insignificant they are.

Or, you know, a car.

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Endoperez
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Re: redacted

Post by Endoperez » Tue Jan 06, 2015 1:36 am

Retarded Username wrote:redacted

Also, endo, why do you keep doing this?
I mean, it's nice and all from your part to give phoenix the attention he craves so much, but what do you get from it?
I'm serious, I do want to know.
I thought he could learn.

Also I have a hard time ignoring the stuff he says. I mean, 'gamers are bad' is as bad as doxxing and swatting and harassment of a specific person? 8chan had a thread about blocking a suicide hotline because SJW were talking about a teen's suicide? Being sensitive is ethically wrong? Claiming journalists are insignificant compared to him? I have to define partial truth for him and he goes NOPE that's 'part of' not 'partial'? He claims feminism is harassment and abuse when feminists speak against it all the time?

It's so stupid... So simply wrong.

I think I'll try ignoring him again. :(

Seriously, "I inform, I never check my facts!" WTF?

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Ragdollmaster
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Re: redacted

Post by Ragdollmaster » Tue Jan 06, 2015 9:42 am

Endoperez wrote:Also I have a hard time ignoring the stuff he says.
Ah, poor Finns. I guess when you live in the United States you get used to the sheer volume of idiocy and learn to build a filter for it. I kind of envy you.

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Endoperez
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Re: redacted

Post by Endoperez » Tue Jan 06, 2015 10:46 am

Ragdollmaster wrote:
Endoperez wrote:Also I have a hard time ignoring the stuff he says.
Ah, poor Finns. I guess when you live in the United States you get used to the sheer volume of idiocy and learn to build a filter for it. I kind of envy you.
It's more this, I think:

Image

Classic XKCD.

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