randomness

Anything else
User avatar
rodeje25
Posts: 1036
Joined: Wed Mar 12, 2014 1:17 am
Location: Cold and Rainy Netherlands

Re: randomness

Post by rodeje25 » Sat Jun 06, 2015 11:20 am

Endoperez wrote:TIFF-format images don't work on all common browsers.
That torso can't be animated. It can't bend, and those shoulders won't work well in motion. If you go with that, consider something with floating arms, like in Minecraft or Rayman.
i was thinking like having shoulders stick out of it.
still thinking how to attach the leggs to it

User avatar
Assaultman67
Posts: 2109
Joined: Tue Jun 16, 2009 9:06 pm
Location: U.S.

Re: randomness

Post by Assaultman67 » Sat Jun 06, 2015 10:56 pm

*walks into room*
*looks around*
*mumbles something about july*
*walks out off room*

User avatar
PrincessCelestia
Posts: 63
Joined: Sun May 20, 2012 10:46 pm
Location: Canterlot, Equestria

Re: randomness

Post by PrincessCelestia » Sun Jun 07, 2015 1:37 am

Endoperez wrote:
PrincessCelestia wrote:Democracy is a system by which those who adore authority use their superior numbers to enforce enslavement upon those who wish to be free by force of arms in the name of "government".
Force of arms is a system by which people can kill lots of people very fast. Because killing people is generally bad, I find myself distrustful of people who fantasize about force of arms and make it a big part of their lives.

" to be free by ability to kill" is scary talk
Not how it was meant to read, my bad.
...use their superior numbers to enforce enslavement by force of arms in the name of "government", upon those who wish to be truly free.

User avatar
rodeje25
Posts: 1036
Joined: Wed Mar 12, 2014 1:17 am
Location: Cold and Rainy Netherlands

Re: randomness

Post by rodeje25 » Sun Jun 07, 2015 2:24 am

oh Endo you should see that chest more like armor so indeed it can't bend.

edit: the arms are done! but i'mnot happy with them because they look so different and too realistic.
(sorry for the tiff image again but i got a file mismatch error)

edit edit: i deleted them from the model (don't worry i saved the arms separatly) and now i'm going to make lower polygon arms that float and the character itself will be floating.

edit edit edit: the model is finished
Attachments
henk voortgang 2.tiff
henk voortgang 2.tiff (55.97 KiB) Viewed 5038 times

User avatar
Phoenixwarrior141
Posts: 1433
Joined: Fri Aug 02, 2013 12:37 pm
Location: I've lost all sense of direction, I'm quite concerned to be honest.

Re: randomness

Post by Phoenixwarrior141 » Sun Jun 07, 2015 4:02 pm

Assaultman67 wrote:*walks into room*
*looks around*
*mumbles something about july*
*walks out off room*
NO. NO. NO. BAD.
NO.

User avatar
PrincessCelestia
Posts: 63
Joined: Sun May 20, 2012 10:46 pm
Location: Canterlot, Equestria

Re: randomness

Post by PrincessCelestia » Tue Jun 09, 2015 12:54 am


User avatar
Phoenixwarrior141
Posts: 1433
Joined: Fri Aug 02, 2013 12:37 pm
Location: I've lost all sense of direction, I'm quite concerned to be honest.

Re: randomness

Post by Phoenixwarrior141 » Tue Jun 09, 2015 2:42 am

Apparently Desura is dead.

RPS did a thing on it.

User avatar
Endoperez
Posts: 5668
Joined: Sun Jan 11, 2009 7:41 am
Location: cold and dark and lovely Finland

Re: randomness

Post by Endoperez » Tue Jun 09, 2015 3:09 am

Steam refunds are probably a bigger problem for Indies. Up to 30% refund rates, including games bought months earlier - and at no cost to Valve since it goes to Steam Wallet and will, eventually, be turned into a purchase.

steamed.kotaku.com/a-lot-of-people-are-using-steam-refunds-1709938036

User avatar
Phoenixwarrior141
Posts: 1433
Joined: Fri Aug 02, 2013 12:37 pm
Location: I've lost all sense of direction, I'm quite concerned to be honest.

Re: randomness

Post by Phoenixwarrior141 » Tue Jun 09, 2015 4:32 am

Isn't that a load of crap because it gets refunded to your credit card and NOT your steam wallet? Unless they changed that and I'm just an idiot.

User avatar
Glabbit
Posts: 4917
Joined: Sun Feb 06, 2005 8:38 am
Location: A mile away, with your shoes!

Re: randomness

Post by Glabbit » Tue Jun 09, 2015 4:37 am

I've seen it argued that the steam refunds might be good for the indie scene since it'll "only" (mainly?) negatively affect those indie devs that don't provide adequate support and/or are assholes, which does sound like a good thing since that'll leave more space for the more dedicated small-time creators to grow or something.
But I can't shake the feeling that a majority of customers are most likely also assholes and many are going to abuse the hell out of this feature.

I guess I'm skeptical either way. We'll see how this goes.

User avatar
Phoenixwarrior141
Posts: 1433
Joined: Fri Aug 02, 2013 12:37 pm
Location: I've lost all sense of direction, I'm quite concerned to be honest.

Re: randomness

Post by Phoenixwarrior141 » Tue Jun 09, 2015 4:56 am

The simple solution: Make games that people won't want to toss away after an hour or 2. And try to support your game.

The refunds seem to be a good thing for small time developers who make good products. It also loosens the burden on the consumer (They can be a tad more reckless with their spending).

User avatar
EPR89
Posts: 1845
Joined: Mon Oct 15, 2012 8:57 am
Location: Germany

Re: randomness

Post by EPR89 » Tue Jun 09, 2015 6:19 am

Phoenixwarrior141 wrote:Isn't that a load of crap because it gets refunded to your credit card and NOT your steam wallet? Unless they changed that and I'm just an idiot.
How does that make it a load of crap? The problem is not that people get their money back or how they get it back (the refund policy states that the amount will either be added to your Steam Wallet or refunded to you through the payment method you have used originally).

One problem is that the refund possibility makes it even more likely that people will buy into an Early Access game without understanding that Early Access is not meant to give you a finished product right away. The people Earlly Access is meant for are people who take their time to look into a project and decide to support it. Early Access preorders are investments. The Steam forum for Overgrowth has made it very obvious to me that people on STeam do not understand that and that the people who are not getting it are very keen on creating bad press for projects that have supposedly "betrayed" them.

The otehrone is that Early Access and indie devs in general need feedback in order to improve. The refund policy by Steam requires no communication and therefore doesn't give the devs any knowledge why people are getting refunds.

And then there is the problem with DRM free games. WItha refund policy, those will soon vanish from Steam. You can now just buy those games, request a refund and keep playing.


The ability to get a refund is good. But I think Valve hasn't really considered the issues related to introducing it.

User avatar
EPR89
Posts: 1845
Joined: Mon Oct 15, 2012 8:57 am
Location: Germany

Re: randomness

Post by EPR89 » Tue Jun 09, 2015 6:27 am

Phoenixwarrior141 wrote:The simple solution: Make games that people won't want to toss away after an hour or 2. And try to support your game.

The refunds seem to be a good thing for small time developers who make good products. It also loosens the burden on the consumer (They can be a tad more reckless with their spending).
What about great short games. Games like Limbo or the many awesome short puzzle games out there? Those games don't take two hours to finish, but they are seriously worth it. RIght now, people could buy them, play them, then get a refund and think: "Man! Today was a good day."
The flat two hour rule just doesn'tt cut it for these games.

SUre they won't get all the achievements. But I doubt that people who want to play a full game for free care about that.

In my opinion, that truly is the lost sale that comes up during piracy debates so often.

User avatar
rodeje25
Posts: 1036
Joined: Wed Mar 12, 2014 1:17 am
Location: Cold and Rainy Netherlands

Re: randomness

Post by rodeje25 » Tue Jun 09, 2015 8:38 am

i think it's dumb because it secretly supports you to be uncarefull with your money and then if you don't like it you expect a refund. that's just not how everything works so i'm against it. if you buy something just make sure you did some research.

User avatar
Phoenixwarrior141
Posts: 1433
Joined: Fri Aug 02, 2013 12:37 pm
Location: I've lost all sense of direction, I'm quite concerned to be honest.

Re: randomness

Post by Phoenixwarrior141 » Tue Jun 09, 2015 10:06 am

rodeje25 wrote:i think it's dumb because it secretly supports you to be uncarefull with your money and then if you don't like it you expect a refund. that's just not how everything works so i'm against it. if you buy something just make sure you did some research.
By that logic, you should have done some research into that Nigerian prince before you gave him your credit card. People fall for scams all the time.

Consumerism isn't entitlement.
EPR89 wrote: What about great short games. Games like Limbo or the many awesome short puzzle games out there?
People who aren't assholes (A logic percent of the population believe it or not) won't refund them if they liked them. Don't argue that the system is bad because a minority abuses it.
Those games don't take two hours to finish, but they are seriously worth it. RIght now, people could buy them, play them, then get a refund and think: "Man! Today was a good day."
The flat two hour rule just doesn'tt cut it for these games.
1: If the consumer didn't like it, not allowing them to get their money back doesn't make them happier. Even if they finish it, if they still don't like it they won't play it.

2: This is abuse of the system.

3: What should they do? Upping the allowed time to 4 hours encompasses more games, lowering it can cause even more problems leading to people disliking the system. Should they implement a minimal time played requirement? It's either remake the entire system or deal with a few devs (Who clearly didn't do something right cuz they're sinking and not swimming) who are angry cause their hour long hipster games aren't profiting anymore.


In my opinion, that truly is the lost sale that comes up during piracy debates so often.
Believe it or not, if your consumer didn't like the game not giving them a refund doesn't change that. The money just stays in the dev's pockets. Which isn't a good thing by default.
EPR89 wrote: How does that make it a load of crap? The problem is not that people get their money back or how they get it back (the refund policy states that the amount will either be added to your Steam Wallet or refunded to you through the payment method you have used originally).
Endo said:
and at no cost to Valve since it goes to Steam Wallet and will, eventually, be turned into a purchase.
Which is wrong. Flat out wrong. Not even just a misunderstanding of facts. It's flat out WRONG.


One problem is that the refund possibility makes it even more likely that people will buy into an Early Access game without understanding that Early Access is not meant to give you a finished product right away.
... then refund it and be happy. Consumers win, Valve has a happy customer, the money lost probably doesn't hurt the dev.
The people Earlly Access is meant for are people who take their time to look into a project and decide to support it.
Those people still exist, the majority of customers are not assholes. Those who don't want to get a refund will stay.
Early Access preorders are investments. The Steam forum for Overgrowth has made it very obvious to me that people on STeam do not understand that and that the people who are not getting it are very keen on creating bad press for projects that have supposedly "betrayed" them.
Those people leave, loyal customers stay and offer feedback. Again, seems like a win for Steam and the devs since no one is whining about how bad early access is. Yay.


The otehrone is that Early Access and indie devs in general need feedback in order to improve. The refund policy by Steam requires no communication and therefore doesn't give the devs any knowledge why people are getting refunds.
So? People are still bound to leave feedback. The two are not mutually exclusive events. People will post on the forums why they don't like where the game is going and why they want a refund.
Would you rather every refund goes through the devs first, effectively meaning the system won't help anyone?

And then there is the problem with DRM free games. WItha refund policy, those will soon vanish from Steam. You can now just buy those games, request a refund and keep playing.
1: Those are few and far between as it is.

2: I don't think the devs (The ones who know you attract more flies with honey then vinegar) will stop having that option available or stop using it. It's not like they have physical units to move or anything.

Post Reply