randomness

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Phoenixwarrior141
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Re: randomness

Post by Phoenixwarrior141 » Mon Aug 03, 2015 12:28 am

Endoperez wrote:I'll just add two more points to the previous: I think women should be treated better than they are treated now,
You do realize that is 1: Illogical because they are treated fairly nicely as it.

And 2: Oceans away from "I want women to be treated better then men".

inb4 someone interprets this a loaded question somehow.
and yes, I omitted part of what the girl in the video said to make my point. Phoenix misquoted the part I omitted. *sigh* I don't think we two can manage anything more neutral than an argument, and even those tend to devolve into shouting matches. :(
I did misquote the part you omitted, I tried to paraphrase it. Whoops. She did say she wanted women to be treated better then men.

But hey, you paraphrased it too. So I guess you're guilty of the same thing.

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Re: randomness

Post by Endoperez » Mon Aug 03, 2015 5:01 am

Phoenixwarrior141 wrote:
Endoperez wrote:I'll just add two more points to the previous: I think women should be treated better than they are treated now,
You do realize that is 1: Illogical because they are treated fairly nicely as it.
Statement 1: W are treated fairly nicely as it is.
Statement 2: W should be treated better than they are treated now.
Conclusion: W should be treated better than fairly nicely.

That's my take on feminism, really. I've been shown various ways in which "fairly nicely" is also "worse than men".
But hey, you paraphrased it too. So I guess you're guilty of the same thing.
Yes, we're guilty of the same mistakes,which is why I said we can't manage to have anything but an argument.

Here's an improved paraphrase, changes in italics:

"Bitch bitch ass bitch cunt bitch you should earn less than men because you will have babies also you probably flash your tits"
"I want women to be treated better because we do more"
"Shut up that makes no fucking sense"
[+] The part I was paraphrasing is from 6m30s to 7m30s
From the video wrote:Stranger 1: "bitch bootlegged ass bitch ass cunt ass bitch, ass bitch ass bitch" (6:08)
— — —
Streamer: "I don't want equality, I want women to be treated better because we deserve it. We do more." (6:27)
Stranger 2: "That doesn't make any fucking sense." (6:31)
— — —
Stranger 2: "Based off a fact that she's going to, she's gonna get pregnant at one point in her life and go on a maternity leave, she makes 25% less than a male" (7:07)
Streamer: "Yes, but however – " (7:12)
Stranger 2: "No shut up for a sec" (7:15)
— — —
Stranger 2: "Yeah probably 'cause you flash your tits but whatever" (7:32)
I simplified the streamer's stance because I don't think I can have a discussion about feminism with you. Not just because we disagree, but because I don't think you can even point out, say, the logical format of her statement, her premise and her conclusion. I could have a discussion about the validity of the premise (women do more than men) with some people, which would let us discuss whether her conclusion is logically sound, but I honestly don't believe I can have that discussion with you.

But hey, we're having a "fairly nice" you a bitch bootlegged ass bitch ass cunt ass bitch, ass bitch ass bitch. Sixpack or GTFO!

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Endoperez
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Re: randomness

Post by Endoperez » Mon Aug 03, 2015 5:10 am

Oh, and sorry about this, you poor hapless bystanders. Here's some comedy relief:

There's a journalist called Richard William Littlejohn.




Richard William Littlejohn.






Richard William Littlejohn






Dick Willie Smallpenis

Well his parents certainly had a sense of humour! :lol:

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Phoenixwarrior141
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Re: randomness

Post by Phoenixwarrior141 » Mon Aug 03, 2015 10:05 pm

Endoperez wrote:
Phoenixwarrior141 wrote:
Endoperez wrote:I'll just add two more points to the previous: I think women should be treated better than they are treated now,
You do realize that is 1: Illogical because they are treated fairly nicely as it.
Statement 1: W are treated fairly nicely as it is.
Statement 2: W should be treated better than they are treated now.
Conclusion: W should be treated better than fairly nicely.

That's my take on feminism, really. I've been shown various ways in which "fairly nicely" is also "worse than men".
How so? I've seen plenty of places where women have it better than men.

inb4 wage gap BS.


Stranger 1: "bitch bootlegged ass bitch ass cunt ass bitch, ass bitch ass bitch" (6:08)
— — —
One guy trolled a streamer. I can find 40 minutes of similar raids, your point?

Streamer: "I don't want equality, I want women to be treated better because we deserve it. We do more." (6:27)
Stranger 2: "That doesn't make any fucking sense." (6:31)
— — —
"I don't want equality"
Boom. My "point" (Internet air quotes because my point was a joke more or less, because radical feminists are funny).

Or do you support such thinking? I shouldn't have to point out why that's bad.

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Re: randomness

Post by Endoperez » Tue Aug 04, 2015 12:38 am

Phoenixwarrior141 wrote: How so? I've seen plenty of places where women have it better than men.

"I don't want equality"
Or do you support such thinking? I shouldn't have to point out why that's bad.
I disagree with her in the logic that what you do determines how you should be treated. Stay-at-home parents don't work for money, but that doesn't mean they should be treated differently, for example. Her logic goes: women do more -> women should be treated better. I think equality isn't something earned through work, but something that should be natural.

I'm not saying everyone's situations should be forcibly equalized so they'd be on the same field (but I'm from Finland where the poor are cared for and I agree with that). I'm talking about the way people are treated in social contexts, not money, economic possibilities, etc. There are systemic problems too, but that's hard stuff to fix.


As for examples of inequality...

1)
Women are not as accepted as heroes. Look at Avengers toys. There's no Black Widow merchandise (to the same extent). "It doesn't sell." Why not? All the other Avengers sell. There's shirts of Avengers (sans her), there's toys of Captain America doing her scenes, etc. Do we really want that for half the kids their role models don't try to change the world for the better?

2)
Women do more chores and spend more time caring for others. In addition to wage gap, women work more at home. About 50 minutes more, daily. Which means almost an hour less on hobbies & entertainment, like, say, games. So every day you have less than 50 minutes to game, imagine replacing that with chores. Now realuze it's not just work, but unpaid work with no benefits.
m.huffpost.com/us/entry/5529131

3)
Women who have lots of sex are sluts and whores. Men who have lots of sex are playboys. Men are expected to like sex and want sex. Women are expected to blush and be embarrassed. Men are expected to hunt and woo and charm and catch a woman. Women are expected to be pretty and beautiful. It encourages all sorts of ugly stuff, from street harassment to Twilight and 50 Shade's abusive stalkers as romantic guys.

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Re: randomness

Post by Phoenixwarrior141 » Tue Aug 04, 2015 2:13 am

Endoperez wrote: I disagree with her in the logic that what you do determines how you should be treated. Stay-at-home parents don't work for money, but that doesn't mean they should be treated differently, for example. Her logic goes: women do more -> women should be treated better. I think equality isn't something earned through work, but something that should be natural.

I'm not saying everyone's situations should be forcibly equalized so they'd be on the same field (but I'm from Finland where the poor are cared for and I agree with that). I'm talking about the way people are treated in social contexts, not money, economic possibilities, etc. There are systemic problems too, but that's hard stuff to fix.
Dodging the question, but I agree with your points so...



As for examples of inequality...
1)
Women are not as accepted as heroes. Look at Avengers toys. There's no Black Widow merchandise (to the same extent). "It doesn't sell." Why not? All the other Avengers sell. There's shirts of Avengers (sans her), there's toys of Captain America doing her scenes, etc. Do we really want that for half the kids their role models don't try to change the world for the better?
Because action/adventure and such things are preferred by men and boys over women and girls? I'll have to dig up a study.

A girl/girly toy might turn off the majority of their audience. Demographics: Ain't dem a bitch.

2)
Women do more chores and spend more time caring for others.
By choice. Did someone hold a gun to your mother's head and force her to do the housework? That's not how society do.
In addition to wage gap,
*cough* Pay negotiation, the wage gap is much smaller then the media would have you believe *cough*
women work more at home. About 50 minutes more, daily. Which means almost an hour less on hobbies & entertainment, like, say, games. So every day you have less than 50 minutes to game, imagine replacing that with chores. Now realuze it's not just work, but unpaid work with no benefits.
Nobody is forcing them, except da PATRIARCHY AMIRITE


3)
Women who have lots of sex are sluts and whores. Men who have lots of sex are playboys. Men are expected to like sex and want sex. Women are expected to blush and be embarrassed. Men are expected to hunt and woo and charm and catch a woman. Women are expected to be pretty and beautiful. It encourages all sorts of ugly stuff, from street harassment to Twilight and 50 Shade's abusive stalkers as romantic guys.
I'm gonna chock this up to evolution because the point of reproduction is to pass on the superior genes, if a lotta women are having sex with you that means your genes are good.

Plus societal pressure to settle down and have a family, or something like that. My ass is a valid source right?

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Re: randomness

Post by Endoperez » Tue Aug 04, 2015 3:53 am

Phoenixwarrior141 wrote: Dodging the question, but I agree with your points so...
Sorry if you feel I dodged it. I disagree with her, and with the statement "I don't want equality". I think what she said was more complicated than that, and would've been a more interesting debate.
1) Women are not as accepted as heroes.
Because action/adventure and such things are preferred by men and boys over women and girls? I'll have to dig up a study.

A girl/girly toy might turn off the majority of their audience. Demographics: Ain't dem a bitch.
Action, adventure and such things are portrayed as things for boys and men. This is what I meant by role models. And what I meant by women not being accepted as heroes. You equate girl toys with girly toys. I'm talking about Black Widow, a martial arts assassin killer heroine, not Barbie. Why isn't she a hero?

This is an example of a this weird effect where everything from food to medicine to toys is gendered and assumed to only be fit for half the humanity. Why put bread in a pink bag and say it's for women? Why make a block-buster movie with 5 heroes and a heroine, and then make a t-shirt with 5 heroes and Nick Fury? When about 40% of the audience for The Avengers were women (and Guardians of the Galaxy had more so it's not a fluke)?
2) Women do more chores and spend more time caring for others.
By choice. Did someone hold a gun to your mother's head and force her to do the housework? That's not how society do.
Societal pressure. SOMEONE needs to do those chores. Men, and boys, generally do NOT do those chores. I didn't. My mother did, and my sister. I complained when I had to do something once or twice a week, because I didn't realize how much of it there was. 50 minutes DAILY. That's a lot.
Nobody is forcing them, except da PATRIARCHY AMIRITE
This societal pressure where men are assumed to have certain privileges, such as not having to do chores, is called patriarchy. So... yes?
differences in regards to men and women having sex
I'm gonna chock this up to evolution because the point of reproduction is to pass on the superior genes, if a lotta women are having sex with you that means your genes are good.

Plus societal pressure to settle down and have a family, or something like that. My ass is a valid source right?
A woman having lots of kids would pass her genes down, too, so this is bullshit. Also, culture isn't biological.

Yes, there are societal pressures to settle down and have a family. Especially towards women. Because all women "want to have kids", right? And can have kids? Why, it almost seems like these assumptions are based on outdated, patriarchal ways of thinking where women stay at home and are subservient to men.

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Re: randomness

Post by Endoperez » Tue Aug 04, 2015 4:34 am

Annoyance tax:

Image

Image

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Re: randomness

Post by Glabbit » Tue Aug 04, 2015 3:17 pm

Image
I fully endorse this tax.

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Re: randomness

Post by Phoenixwarrior141 » Tue Aug 04, 2015 11:41 pm

Endoperez wrote:Annoyance tax:

Image

Image
Bravo, I concede.
Endoperez wrote:
Phoenixwarrior141 wrote: Dodging the question, but I agree with your points so...
Sorry if you feel I dodged it. I disagree with her, and with the statement "I don't want equality". I think what she said was more complicated than that, and would've been a more interesting debate.
Can't find an asshole response to this so I'll just say: Works for me.


Action, adventure and such things are portrayed as things for boys and men.
Because, those are the demographics they appeal to. Sorry but marketing is cold and doesn't care about your politics unless you can show they'd make more money obeying your ideology.
This is what I meant by role models. And what I meant by women not being accepted as heroes.
But they are, just not as widely as male heroes. Because men can relate to male heroes more than female heroes, and men are the demographics for action mvoies.
You equate girl toys with girly toys. I'm talking about Black Widow, a martial arts assassin killer heroine, not Barbie. Why isn't she a hero?
Little boys would make the equation, remember your target audience.


This is an example of a this weird effect where everything from food to medicine to toys is gendered and assumed to only be fit for half the humanity.
Demographics suck don't they?
Societal pressure. SOMEONE needs to do those chores. Men, and boys, generally do NOT do those chores. I didn't. My mother did, and my sister. I complained when I had to do something once or twice a week, because I didn't realize how much of it there was. 50 minutes DAILY. That's a lot.
Did the patriarchy make you bitch and moan about doing something once or twice? Did societal pressure make your mother and sister fill in when you and your dad wouldn't do the chores?

The answer is no.


This societal pressure where men are assumed to have certain privileges, such as not having to do chores, is called patriarchy. So... yes?
I'm not gonna entertain the patriarchy argument because that's the standard retarded rhetoric that SJWs spit all the time.

See above for your chores argument, it's not that women are being forced to do chores it's that the men are not.


A woman having lots of kids would pass her genes down, too, so this is bullshit. Also, culture isn't biological.
I never said culture was, so whoops if I wrote that wrong.

Oh and I was basing my sexual argument on Sexual selection but that didn't pan out so... shit.
[
quote]
Yes, there are societal pressures to settle down and have a family. Especially towards women.[/quote]
Citation needed.
Because all women "want to have kids", right?
That's a basic biological function so yes.
And can have kids?
Doesn't mean you can't settle down with one guy and fuck him for eternity right?
Why, it almost seems like these assumptions are based on outdated, patriarchal ways of thinking where women stay at home and are subservient to men.
1: "Patriarchal" Haaaaah, no.
2: Or maybe that's just how it is, I mean, Sargon did a video on this sort of thing. I'll dig it up some time.

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Re: randomness

Post by Endoperez » Wed Aug 05, 2015 12:45 am

Just because demographics exist doesn't mean they are good. Or immutable.
Image

If men are the demographic of action heroes and that's the reason for male heroes, 40% of Marvel movie heroes should be women.

Why do women do more chores if it's not cultural or societal?

I think Sargon is stupid, and claiming women should base their life choices on a computerised age on solely biology is hypocritical and selfish. Never ever staring at a screen is "biological". Hunting and gathering probably is biological. Do you base your life around this? No. Will everyone want to do this biological thing? No. But one can. (Incidentally, I'm taking a break and doing some gathering later this week. Blueberries, mushrooms, dunno what else.)

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Re: randomness

Post by rodeje25 » Thu Aug 06, 2015 9:33 am

Now stop talking about feminisim and guess what kind of special day it will be tommorow for me.

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Re: randomness

Post by Endoperez » Fri Aug 07, 2015 1:14 am

rodeje25 wrote:Now stop talking about feminisim and guess what kind of special day it will be tommorow for me.
You will be older and you will be with friends in a place/situation that's not common for you. I dunno, a birthday party at... Disneyland?

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Re: randomness

Post by Glabbit » Fri Aug 07, 2015 4:39 am

BIRTHDAYS
Congratulations to: rodeje25(15)


Dangit, I was going to guess 'First transgender operation day'. I should've played the statistics.

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Re: randomness

Post by rodeje25 » Fri Aug 07, 2015 7:14 am

Glabbit wrote:BIRTHDAYS
Congratulations to: rodeje25(15)


Dangit, I was going to guess 'First transgender operation day'. I should've played the statistics.
:|

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