randomness

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Sehiro
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Re: randomness

Post by Sehiro » Fri Mar 20, 2015 5:36 am

Phoenixwarrior141 wrote:I've also figured out pixel art is easy as hell with GIMP. So I'm gonna start experimenting with that once I get a minute of my life.
Thanks for the unintentional hint. I was looking for a program to do pixel sprites.

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Phoenixwarrior141
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Re: randomness

Post by Phoenixwarrior141 » Fri Mar 20, 2015 7:11 am


More tutorials out there.

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Re: randomness

Post by Phoenixwarrior141 » Sat Mar 21, 2015 9:00 am


Image
Fuck I had to.

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Endoperez
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Re: randomness

Post by Endoperez » Sat Mar 21, 2015 10:06 am

Sigh. Phoenix, do you never learn?

The topmost Youtube comment to the video has links to screencaps from Steam threads, where people requested to be able to kill NPCs in the likeness of her, Zoe, Anita and various other people. There's still, 3 months after the tweet was "debunked", a 250+ post thread on the first page of the forums about whether people want killable "SJW"s in the game or not.

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/B5ORU29IEAAqL3z.png
http://steamcommunity.com/workshop/file ... 190808838/
http://steamcommunity.com/workshop/file ... 211543741/

That said, it seems people have not suggested adding Brianna's specific likeness to the game, in the game's own forums. So... the video you posted isn't false, just MISSING THE POINT.

Also this was released three months ago.

Image

edit: Originally, I wrote the requests were "threats", but I fixed that. In this case it wasn't about threats, just violence fantasies

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EPR89
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Re: randomness

Post by EPR89 » Sat Mar 21, 2015 10:18 am

Phoenixwarrior141 wrote:
I had a look at the conversation in the tweets.
Not one single person asked her for clarification. That's what really is wrong with this GamerGate vs. Feminazi "debate." No one talks with each other. They only talk about each other.

Part of the reason why I am so sick of you posting this stuff here. The whole thing is not constructive. It's just a bunch of angry people talking shit about each other because they happen to have opposing views on some issues. And you aren't doing anything different.

EDIT: Took me one minute to find this.

One post from this thread:
As long as we can shoot up a convention of SJW that would be worth the price of the game alone, even as a mod.
And I haven't even put any effort into the search or included deleted posts.

Plus, I can't access the Hatred Forums. So there is now way for me to be sure that what the guy in the video claims about his search is true. For all I know, he might be a massive hypocrite and lies about his own actions too.

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Phoenixwarrior141
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Re: randomness

Post by Phoenixwarrior141 » Sat Mar 21, 2015 11:34 am

Endoperez wrote:Sigh. Phoenix, do you never learn?
Do you?

The topmost Youtube comment to the video has links to screencaps from Steam threads, where people requested to be able to kill NPCs in the likeness of her, Zoe, Anita and various other people.
Teal Deer has responded to these, they were posted after the fact. Until then, it was only one thread or so from some assholes joking around.
There's still, 3 months after the tweet was "debunked", a 250+ post thread on the first page of the forums about whether people want killable "SJW"s in the game or not.
Maybe if they weren't such assholes, like bronies and furries that people also want added, they wouldn't get added. This is irrelevant however, they just want Hatred to make a statement.
Ignoring this one.
These two were posted around the same time the video was, so I'll give TLDR the benefit of the doubt.
That said, it seems people have not suggested adding Brianna's specific likeness to the game, in the game's own forums. So... the video you posted isn't false, just MISSING THE POINT.
Wrong. Brianna posted the tweet about people wanted her killed in Hatred, and said she was the victim once more. So, she's missing the point.
Hah.


edit: Originally, I wrote the requests were "threats", but I fixed that. In this case it wasn't about threats, just violence fantasies
That is the single most SJW thing you'd ever do. Sounds like you'd be welcome on Polygon.

EPR89 wrote: I had a look at the conversation in the tweets.
That conversation proved it was also victim bait, just saying. That's what the video was about.
Not one single person asked her for clarification. That's what really is wrong with this GamerGate vs. Feminazi "debate." No one talks with each other. They only talk about each other.
Agreed, that's a lot of what goes on in KiA, actually
Part of the reason why I am so sick of you posting this stuff here. The whole thing is not constructive. It's just a bunch of angry people talking shit about each other because they happen to have opposing views on some issues. And you aren't doing anything different.
See, that's where this differs. Here, people CAN have intelligent discourse, they won't because it's the internet but they can.
So, I see no harm done. Here people can have actual discussion, and everyone else was sitting here bored. So, less harm done.
EDIT: Took me one minute to find this.

One post from this thread:
As long as we can shoot up a convention of SJW that would be worth the price of the game alone, even as a mod.
And I haven't even put any effort into the search or included deleted posts.
So... people are assholes. Your point?
Plus, I can't access the Hatred Forums. So there is now way for me to be sure that what the guy in the video claims about his search is true. For all I know, he might be a massive hypocrite and lies about his own actions too.
I did it for you. 3 mentions.
2 of which in the same thread about a non-Hatred thread.
1 was a GG thread.
That was all.

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Re: randomness

Post by moomoohk » Sat Mar 21, 2015 2:27 pm

guys check this out http://imgur.com/a/TMvdO

1 year since i started working on my game

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Endoperez
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Re: randomness

Post by Endoperez » Sat Mar 21, 2015 4:00 pm

[+] Spoiled for annoying stuff
Phoenixwarrior141 wrote:Teal Deer has responded to these, they were posted after the fact. Until then, it was only one thread or so from some assholes joking around.
This is the tweet in question:
"People are requesting that me and the other women targeted by Gamergate be killable characters in Hatred."

One thread and some assholes are enough for that tweet to be entirely, 100% factual and true. You know about the thread, and just agreed that it happened. So she wasn't wrong. But the video claims she was wrong and did it for attention. The only way your reaction makes sense to me, is if you assume it's wrong to write a tweet expecting people to react to it. That is, it's wrong to use social media as a media, socially.
That is the single most SJW thing you'd ever do. Sounds like you'd be welcome on Polygon.
I did it because I thought it would be ethical to mention that I edited my post, since I had made a mistake that presented the Hatred fan community in a worse light than they deserve. Clearly you don't see it that way.

If I was a journalist and this had been an article, that would've been an act of ethical journalism brough on by GamerGate's demands to not misrepresent gamers. I don't remember when I last mentioned this, but I'm all for better games journalism, and more ethical reporting, like most of the "SJWs" you oppose so single-mindedly. I'm against GamerGate because of this sort of dishonest crap you keep reposting.
EPR89 wrote:Plus, I can't access the Hatred Forums. So there is now way for me to be sure that what the guy in the video claims about his search is true. For all I know, he might be a massive hypocrite and lies about his own actions too.
Nah, at the time the video was made the keyword Brianna hadn't meen mentioned once. Like Phoenix said, there's only three or so mentions and they're all after that.
moomoohk wrote:guys check this out http://imgur.com/a/TMvdO

1 year since i started working on my game
Cool idea! I assume it's only about one value (at a time?), because the visuals seem to be designed to only show one graph at once.

You mentioned felshing out the mechanics for fun next. My advice: do NOT do the tutorial now!

Tutorials aren't fun. They are how you get started in a game. If you want to make a game fun, start with the most fun part of it, and make sure that's as fun as possible. Only once that's done, you can start thinking about how to get the player there.
In bigger projects, it'd be a "vertical slice" - half a really good race track, 30 seconds of fighting against really cool enemies, that sort of stuff.

Also, since the tutorial teaches the players how the game works... If you change how the game works, the tutorial will be outdated and useless. You should be testing how people react to the UI, mechanics and all that, what they like and what they don't. Then if you need to, you can change it so the game's more fun.
If you need to, write a manual of something. Heck, write a book! It might be easier than making a good tutorial that works and people want to play! :D

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Re: randomness

Post by moomoohk » Sat Mar 21, 2015 5:37 pm

Endoperez wrote: Cool idea! I assume it's only about one value (at a time?), because the visuals seem to be designed to only show one graph at once.
nope! the newer dart version (featured towards the end of the album) lets you view and screw with multiple graphs simultaneously (that was the plan all along)
Endoperez wrote: You mentioned felshing out the mechanics for fun next. My advice: do NOT do the tutorial now!

Tutorials aren't fun. They are how you get started in a game. If you want to make a game fun, start with the most fun part of it, and make sure that's as fun as possible. Only once that's done, you can start thinking about how to get the player there.
In bigger projects, it'd be a "vertical slice" - half a really good race track, 30 seconds of fighting against really cool enemies, that sort of stuff.

Also, since the tutorial teaches the players how the game works... If you change how the game works, the tutorial will be outdated and useless. You should be testing how people react to the UI, mechanics and all that, what they like and what they don't. Then if you need to, you can change it so the game's more fun.
If you need to, write a manual of something. Heck, write a book! It might be easier than making a good tutorial that works and people want to play! :D
valuable advice. noted!

the thing is though, i'm super pressed to get this thing up on itch. i wanna start selling it, even in an unfun, early access-like state. that might sound like a terrible plan but the core of the game is actually already written, the system is functional.

for people to be able to use what i have at any point in time i feel like there should be something there to teach them how everything works, that's why a tutorial is important imo. mind you the tutorial system i'm currently writing is super rudimentary and can be easily modified in the future as things develop.

getting what i currently have up on itch is much less work than working on the fun part of the game and only then putting it up on itch.

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Re: randomness

Post by Ragdollmaster » Sat Mar 21, 2015 6:07 pm

Code: Select all

>still responding to Phoenix
:roll:

Stop caring, Endo, he'll learn better eventually. Hopefully, anyways, seeing as there are more than a few adult GGers, but...

Now for something worth caring about.


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Endoperez
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Re: randomness

Post by Endoperez » Sat Mar 21, 2015 6:10 pm

moomoohk wrote:
Endoperez wrote: Cool idea! I assume it's only about one value (at a time?), because the visuals seem to be designed to only show one graph at once.
nope! the newer dart version (featured towards the end of the album) lets you view and screw with multiple graphs simultaneously (that was the plan all along)
Oh, did you drop the part where everything down from the graph is a solid color? Or do you have multiple, separate graph screens visible at once?

I can't see multiple graphs, each a solid color down from their curve, working well if they share the same space. Maybe it could be used to highlight the one you've selected or are interested in?
valuable advice. noted!

the thing is though, i'm super pressed to get this thing up on itch. i wanna start selling it, even in an unfun, early access-like state. that might sound like a terrible plan but the core of the game is actually already written, the system is functional.

for people to be able to use what i have at any point in time i feel like there should be something there to teach them how everything works, that's why a tutorial is important imo. mind you the tutorial system i'm currently writing is super rudimentary and can be easily modified in the future as things develop.

getting what i currently have up on itch is much less work than working on the fun part of the game and only then putting it up on itch.
I think your game's idea might get you some interested supporters. Haven't seen that sort of game before.

Assuming you get some interested people, then you have to show them something interesting. Simplified, I'm thinking you'll either have a fun game without a tutorial, or a meh game with a good tutorial.

A good tutorial will not keep people interested in a meh game, unless there's promise of something else in the project. And that promise might be hard to sell. If you're going for the tutorial, try to keep it as simple and general as possible, so that it helps people get into the game... but try to get past that and into the fun gameplay ASAP, so that any people who get interested and try the tutorial can see that there's something else coming in, later.

Also please consider the commercial stuff carefully. You don't have to answer to me, since I'm an outsider and won't know or understand your situation, but these are important questions to keep in mind.
Are you planning to feed yourself on this game, or is it a hobby that brings in some money? Hobby games might end up taking a decade of development. A fine hobby, but very different from a business.

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Re: randomness

Post by Phoenixwarrior141 » Sun Mar 22, 2015 8:01 am

Endoperez wrote: This is the tweet in question:
"People are requesting that me and the other women targeted by Gamergate be killable characters in Hatred."

One thread and some assholes are enough for that tweet to be entirely, 100% factual and true. You know about the thread, and just agreed that it happened. So she wasn't wrong. But the video claims she was wrong and did it for attention. The only way your reaction makes sense to me, is if you assume it's wrong to write a tweet expecting people to react to it. That is, it's wrong to use social media as a media, socially.
1: The post wasn't about whether she was right or wrong. It was about her being a victim of Hatred.
2: Only a few, by no means the amount of people she implied.


I did it because I thought it would be ethical to mention that I edited my post, since I had made a mistake that presented the Hatred fan community in a worse light than they deserve. Clearly you don't see it that way.
No no. I said you saying those things were threats would be the most SJW-esque thing you've ever done. Just like Polygon said that killing online female players was rape (article sadly eludes me, anyone finds it will have my thanks).

If I was a journalist and this had been an article, that would've been an act of ethical journalism brough on by GamerGate's demands to not misrepresent gamers.
Yay! Then this discussion is over!
I don't remember when I last mentioned this,
(long long long long long long long long long long time ago)
but I'm all for better games journalism, and more ethical reporting,
So... why are we having this conversation?
like most of the "SJWs" you oppose so single-mindedly.
The same people who said mayonnaise is a gender?
I'm against GamerGate because of this sort of dishonest crap you keep reposting.
What?
1: "Dishonest". No, the term disingenuous is more accurate. And you're just as biased and pro-feminism in games as I am the opposite. You aren't in the sort of place to do... anything really.
2: "Reposting"
No.




Ragdollmaster wrote:

Code: Select all

>still responding to Phoenix
Well you're still here so...

Stop caring, Endo, he'll learn better eventually.
1: No I won't.
2: "learn better" :|
Hopefully, anyways, seeing as there are more than a few adult GGers, but...
GOT SOURCES THIS TIME!
The average gamer is well into their thirties, and most sources agree if you google search the average age of a gamer.

There's also an ass-ton of adults in notyourshield.

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Endoperez
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Re: randomness

Post by Endoperez » Sun Mar 22, 2015 11:31 am

Phoenixwarrior141 wrote:1: "Dishonest". No, the term disingenuous is more accurate. And you're just as biased and pro-feminism in games as I am the opposite. You aren't in the sort of place to do... anything really.
Actually yes, disingenuous seems a better word for it. Somewhere between not being frank, and outright being fake and deceptive. Dishonest is even stronger. Thanks, I had only really used dishonest for both meanings, before.

I am biased, It's funny, but the difference I see between my bias, as compared to yours, is probably the exact same thing you see your bias as compared to mine. I want games to be good and gamers to enjoy playing games. I want that in the future games make even more people happy to play them. I oppose the movement that tries to force games to only fit into one, small mold, where developers' choices are artificially limited.
Our difference is that I see non-violent games and characters who are women bodybuilders with pink hair as what's lacking, and violent, plotless action as an artificial limitation on what games could be.

I'm in the sort of place to do games and say how I'd like to see them be and become. :)
GG is not representative of the gamer demographic, but yes, I've noticed and been disappointed in how the supporters do not seem to be teens. It makes me sad, since it might not be a quick phase to be overgrown, but a mental model they (and you?) have adopted a long time ago.

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Phoenixwarrior141
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Re: randomness

Post by Phoenixwarrior141 » Sun Mar 22, 2015 2:27 pm

Endoperez wrote: I am biased, It's funny, but the difference I see between my bias, as compared to yours, is probably the exact same thing you see your bias as compared to mine.
This can only be good...
I want games to be good and gamers to enjoy playing games.
... yes...
I want that in the future games make even more people happy to play them.
Aaaaand you fell short. You were THAT close. I oppose bullshit forced diversity "Since because pickles". Forcing games to change so that everyone can not have their feelz hurt.
I oppose the movement that tries to force games to only fit into one, small mold, where developers' choices are artificially limited.
Wait then you oppose feminism?
Our difference is that I see non-violent games and characters who are women bodybuilders with pink hair as what's lacking, and violent, plotless action as an artificial limitation on what games could be.
This better be a joke.
I'm in the sort of place to do games and say how I'd like to see them be and become. :)
Spoiler alert:
What you like is downright pretentious
GG is not representative of the gamer demographic,
Actually, it is. Most people on KiA are olden gamers, or better yet actual gamers. With that, I'd draw the conclusion that at least a significant portion of GG is definitely old enough.
This statistic also proves why bitching about games like Gods Will Be Watching or Hatred falling into the hands of children is stupid, since most gamers can handle it and then some. Fuck even GWBW wasn't as gory as Hatred, and it's still in the fold.

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Glabbit
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Re: randomness

Post by Glabbit » Sun Mar 22, 2015 3:43 pm

Phoenix.
No.

Stop spouting bullshit. Please. It is not how logical debates work. You are not contributing to science. You are building a fort of fantasy and fallacy, using stubborn make-believe for mortar.

Your posts are riddled with examples of ad hominem, post hoc, and outright denial of fact.
You are running in circles and generally making a fool of yourself.

Worse still, you are antagonising the exceedingly patient and reasonable Endoperez unduly, and that's just not cool.

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