I regret everything.

Anything else
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Endoperez
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Re: I regret everything.

Post by Endoperez » Fri Aug 29, 2014 1:54 pm

Phoenixwarrior141 wrote:This collective bullshit was mentioned in the Quinnspiracy , Zoe is also prodding the internet for rent money and donations are all to her Patreon (I forget if that's what it's called) among other victim like things.

For lack of a better word: She's a dick without a dick.

Yes, she has a Patreon.
Yes, it pays her rents.
She makes money from the internet. Yes. So do many Youtube users. So what? Is using Patreon or Kickstarter wrong?

She might be a dick. Even if she is, she doesn't deserve the abuse she gets. I mean, you are often a dick, and Korban was just a dick for posting an animal cruelty video. That doesn't mean I can now insult and abuse you and bombard your twitter or facebook with messages you don't want.


If you're worried about the integrity of journalists, you should know that several journalists had supported her for some time (probably for several months, since I believe Patreon allows for monthly payments or something like that), and that some sites (I think Kotaku) have just now changed their policies to prevent the journalists from reviewing and writing about the content made by those they're paying for, through e.g. Patreon.

That is an actual change caused by this thing.

Now, do you know whose fault it is that the journalists could support indie developers like Zoe Quinn? Answer: Kotaku's, and the journalists'. Not Zoe's. She gets free money! It's not her duty to the gaming community to refuse that money, it's the duty of the journalists to not betray their integrity and believability.

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Endoperez
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Re: I regret everything.

Post by Endoperez » Fri Aug 29, 2014 2:02 pm

http://www.thefineyoungcapitalists.com/PeaceTreaty
Regarding our grievances with Zoe Quinn, an associate of hers, posted my Facebook information. Zoe did not add any information to the post, nor did she post my phone number or email. The subsequent death threat I received via email was not orchestrated by Zoe. Nor was the DDOSing of our website or the banning of us from Twitter. She was simply the most famous voice in a choir of people that did not understand the project.
[...]

I do not feel Zoe understood the ramifications of what she associate was posting or how it would affect me professionally and personally.
[...]

The fallout from the posting of my info costed me around $10,000 dollars, as a business partner walked of the production because of the negative publicity and a sponsor refused to come on board with production being deemed transphobic. I have paid this money and it has not affected my standard of living. The fallout she is receiving, from what she personally described to me, is.


The game jam she "destroyed" was not destroyed by her. She was one loud voice in a crowd, but not part of the mob that later caused damage. The damage the mob (that she wasn't part of) caused was substantial, but not crippling. The other mob is hurting her more than the fine young capitalists were hurt by the other one.

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Endoperez
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Re: I regret everything.

Post by Endoperez » Fri Aug 29, 2014 2:11 pm

Have you heard about the site that game news site that disappeared after it covered the thing? It's here:
http://gamesnosh.com/

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Phoenixwarrior141
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Re: I regret everything.

Post by Phoenixwarrior141 » Fri Aug 29, 2014 3:10 pm

Endoperez wrote:Have you heard about the site that game news site that disappeared after it covered the thing? It's here:
http://gamesnosh.com/
I did.

Note to website designers: If you allow relevant gossip. Make sure the server can handle it.

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Re: I regret everything.

Post by Phoenixwarrior141 » Fri Aug 29, 2014 3:54 pm

Yes, she has a Patreon.
A harmless tool intended for worthy content creators. She's either exploiting feminists for free cash or Depression Quest is only as good as it's publicity says if you believe in Christmas cheer.

I'm open to either as possibilities.
Yes, it pays her rents.
Granted she IS using Patreon to make money and thus keep a roof over her head (At least she didn't charge for Depression Quest) but she also whined on twitter about not being able to make rent (Whether or not this is true or not is up for debate, I'm sure you could find out somewhere) and getting support from her friend (That she most likely fucked) to get free donations.

Which even though it may be necessary, why not make a fucking game or get a job first? She did neither and is living on publicity (Thanks to depressed people [Or sympathizers] donating for her making such a "Beautiful game") from articles to get donations, and is censoring bad publicity, as best she can. If she didn't do this I probably would support her 100%. Hell she could've fucked five non-journalists or other game developers and I'd let that slide because there are men who have done far worse.
She makes money from the internet. Yes. So do many Youtube users. So what? Is using Patreon or Kickstarter wrong?
The way she is using it is. She's using it to rake in income from free publicity she got from many means. Including: Journalists, her game, sympathizers for her game, Game Informer, Kotaku, Rock Paper Shotgun, Tumblr and even some reddit boards.

I understand using it for donations for game developers (Who need the money while developing games) or YouTubers (Who can't get income any other way).
She might be a dick. Even if she is, she doesn't deserve the abuse she gets.
I do not approve of the people verbally assaulting a female Ubisoft employee, but I condemn Zoe Quinn for her actions.

She is also getting PLENTY of support:

1: Major journalists.
2: The Depressed
3: Those who sympathize with the depressed.
4: Reddit mods.
5: Tumblr people (If these little rat shits are worthy of the support).
6: Game developers (Phil Fish)
7: People who approve of her actions.
I mean, you are often a dick,
I also have a dick. I also don't make shitty games that get free sympathy cash from suckers and fuck to silence negative publicity.
and Korban was just a dick for posting an animal cruelty video. That doesn't mean I can now insult and abuse you and bombard your twitter or facebook with messages you don't want.
We also didn't do despicable acts such as what Zoe Quinn did and she still thinks she did nothing wrong.

If you're worried about the integrity of journalists, you should know that several journalists had supported her for some time (probably for several months, since I believe Patreon allows for monthly payments or something like that), and that some sites (I think Kotaku) have just now changed their policies to prevent the journalists from reviewing and writing about the content made by those they're paying for, through e.g. Patreon.

That is an actual change caused by this thing.
None of this surprises me. Zoe Quinn wasn't the first and doubtfully the last (Until women start fucking steam users to get free reviews), she's just the most recent and arguably the most despicable in her actions not even related to the journalists. Including censorship.
Now, do you know whose fault it is that the journalists could support indie developers like Zoe Quinn? Answer: Kotaku's, and the journalists'.
Isn't the fact that the journalist that wrote about Zoe (Nathan Grayson) also had a sexual relationship with her a pretty big different between her case and a normal indie devs?
Not Zoe's. She gets free money! It's not her duty to the gaming community to refuse that money, it's the duty of the journalists to not betray their integrity and believability.
This is true. But isn't it her duty not to TRY to get the journalists to betray their integrity?
And censor negative opinions. That's just wrong.
Endoperez wrote:http://www.thefineyoungcapitalists.com/PeaceTreaty

The game jam she "destroyed" was not destroyed by her. She was one loud voice in a crowd, but not part of the mob that later caused damage. The damage the mob (that she wasn't part of) caused was substantial, but not crippling. The other mob is hurting her more than the fine young capitalists were hurt by the other one.
She didn't directly cause the damage, I know that much. But she was still a major force causing the mob in the first place, especially because the associate of hers posted the information in the first place.

And resulting in $10,000 makes you indirectly responsible. The fact she didn't stop her associate is bad enough. The post makes it seem like she just thought "Harmless prank!" (Like swatters think) when this happened. Regardless of whether she caused the doxxing is irrelevant. The fact is she didn't stop him/her, and god knows if she actually though the ramifications weren't going to be as bad as they were.

And no, she is getting plenty of support from the sources I mentioned earlier, and whether or not Zoe actually thought that the results ($10,000 among other crippling damages) is still unknown, and SHE hasn't been doxxed as far as I know. And a good portion of people (Read the InternetAristocrat's video's comments. Most condemned the information before TFYC even released that article. For all we know this was released in response to Zoe's mob causing severe damages to them and they hope to stop the bullshit now, and her "Personal description" isn't reliable as SHE is the one at the center at the scandal who wants to get out.

And it seems like she's doing just-fucking-fine from what I've seen of relevant articles, most aren't taking actions against Zoe and are simply flipping her off whenever they get the chance.

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Re: I regret everything.

Post by Endoperez » Fri Aug 29, 2014 5:12 pm

I never thought I'd write this but... Phoenixwarrior, thanks for being more reasonable about this than Korban3.
Phoenixwarrior141 wrote:A harmless tool intended for worthy content creators. She's either exploiting feminists for free cash or Depression Quest is only as good as it's publicity says if you believe in Christmas cheer.

I'm open to either as possibilities.


Granted she IS using Patreon to make money and thus keep a roof over her head (At least she didn't charge for Depression Quest) but she also whined on twitter about not being able to make rent (Whether or not this is true or not is up for debate, I'm sure you could find out somewhere) and getting support from her friend (That she most likely fucked) to get free donations.

Which even though it may be necessary, why not make a fucking game or get a job first? She did neither and is living on publicity (Thanks to depressed people [Or sympathizers] donating for her making such a "Beautiful game") from articles to get donations, and is censoring bad publicity, as best she can. If she didn't do this I probably would support her 100%.
She isn't exploiting feminists, her audience is wider than that. But yes, she gets hundreds of people to donate to her. However, isn't that what Patreon is all about? It's for the projects that can't get through Kickstarter, for being too vaguely worded, or for not actually selling anything, or for other reasons. If it's exploitation, is Patreon based on exploitation, and as such evil? I don't think it's exploitation, just an uneven, unsafe trade.


To be honest, she seems like an impulsive, short-sighted person. She makes small, tiny games, so small that people don't want to pay for them. Then she gets excited and puts them up online so people can see them. Then she worries about rent. Patreon lets her get by.

However, that only makes her shortsighted, not a villain. The grasshopper from that old story, and not a busy ant.
Hell she could've fucked five non-journalists or other game developers and I'd let that slide because there are men who have done far worse.
Does this apply to me too? I'm not allowed to make sweet love to any of the journalists or game developers I meet, or have worked with, or have studied with?

You know, I rarely go to bars, but when I go I'm with game developers. If it's a big party, it's got journalists too. So basically you just told me I can't have sex with the people I meet when I go to a bar.
I do not approve of the people verbally assaulting a female Ubisoft employee, but I condemn Zoe Quinn for her actions.
Unfortunately I can't remember which case of verbal assault of a female game developer this was. :/

Anyway, okay. Condemning Zoe Quinn is fine. No problem here. We disagree on what she has done, and how bad of a person she is, but condemning a person for what you believe he or she did is fine.

Harassing is worse than condemning though, and I don't approve of that.
She is also getting PLENTY of support:
It isn't a zero-sum game. Kicking the dog and then petting the cat doesn't make it okay. Kicking is bad even if there's lots and lots of petting afterwards. Now, if it was a vaccine - a pain for a reason, and no more than is necessary - it would be fine. But it's gone way beyond that.

Purposefully getting kicked again and again to get attention sounds like it might be a psychological problem. A reason for support, then, although a support of a specific sort.

Acting as if you had been mortally wounded although you just got a bruise? That's kinda dishonest, but the one who kicked was the more despicable one.

Aiming for the dog and accidentally scoring a goal? ... nevermind this is getting silly
she's just the most recent and arguably the most despicable in her actions not even related to the journalists. Including censorship.

This is true. But isn't it her duty not to TRY to get the journalists to betray their integrity?
And censor negative opinions. That's just wrong.
Is this censoring about the one Youtube video (Mike something?) that got DMCA'd? Haven't caught up on it yet, sorry. There's lots of info, and since I didn't like the video guy, getting all the info takes quite a bit of reading. Anything else I should check up?
She didn't directly cause the damage, I know that much. But she was still a major force causing the mob in the first place, especially because the associate of hers posted the information in the first place.

And resulting in $10,000 makes you indirectly responsible. The fact she didn't stop her associate is bad enough.
If it's her duty to prevent the wrongdoing of others, isn't it our duty too?

Wouldn't that make it your duty to stop the people who harass her, if it's wrong? And the people who harass people like TotalBiscuit, too. And the people who have hacked servers or Skype accounts or Dropbox accounts. If anyone loses anything that was only in a single online storage space, and it was worth $10,000, does it make us indirectly responsible because we didn't stop them?

If it keeps happening, or has kept happening, and she hasn't reacted in any way after being given the time to think about it, then yes, it could be her fault.
If it's an occassional thing that happens only sporadically when she posts like that all the time? No, I don't think so. She has no reason to think any of her tweets will be responsible for anything bad.
SHE hasn't been doxxed as far as I know.
She claims she has been. I don't know if it's true or not, nor do I know how it could be proven.

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Endoperez
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Re: I regret everything.

Post by Endoperez » Fri Aug 29, 2014 5:15 pm

Sorry, another double post. Seems Zoe has just posted another blog post.

http://ohdeargodbees.tumblr.com/post/96 ... -kerfuffle

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Re: I regret everything.

Post by Phoenixwarrior141 » Sat Aug 30, 2014 12:22 am

Endoperez wrote:Sorry, another double post. Seems Zoe has just posted another blog post.

http://ohdeargodbees.tumblr.com/post/96 ... -kerfuffle
If what she said is true, I will forgive her.

Quickly! Find something that says she a satanist!

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Re: I regret everything.

Post by Endoperez » Sat Aug 30, 2014 2:05 am

Phoenixwarrior141 wrote:If what she said is true, I will forgive her.

Quickly! Find something that says she a satanist!
Again, thank for being reasonable. :)

Unfortunately, I didn't find anything about her religious views. She is a cyborg, though (she has some sort of microchip in her hand which she used to start up or install the new Deus Ex), so if she was a satanist, I guess she might technically be... a Cyberdemon!

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Korban3
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Re: I regret everything.

Post by Korban3 » Sat Aug 30, 2014 3:33 am

I blame the alcohol. I'm too busy trying to keep my dick levels between 70% and 94%. It's hard balancing it out so that I don't become 100% a dick.

Anyways, I have no actual beef with any of these people. I'd like it ifgame media would stay straight and honest, since we've all seen how bad Fox is. If Zoe Quinn can make a living off of being a victim, so be it. I can't really say anything except that I'm a bit jealous. I wish I got by simply by being a loud, sometimes annoying feminist. Unfortunately, I'm stuck with an honest job that writes a heavier paycheck in stress than it does in cash.

I cannot comment on the quality of Depression Quest as I'm too busy reenacting the real thing myself. If it were free, I'd probably give it a whirl though. Or maybe a demo or something, I dunno. Not really down to pay money for a digitized slice of my own mentality.

There.
Reasonable enough?

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Re: I regret everything.

Post by Endoperez » Sat Aug 30, 2014 4:25 am

Korban3 wrote:Anyways, I have no actual beef with any of these people. I'd like it ifgame media would stay straight and honest, since we've all seen how bad Fox is.
I don't since Fox is a US thing.
If it were free, I'd probably give it a whirl though. Or maybe a demo or something, I dunno. Not really down to pay money for a digitized slice of my own mentality.
It actually is free. What with the Robin Williams thing, Zoe felt it'd be wrong to put it behind a paywall. Haven't tried it myself yet, but many people have said it's not special except for the subject matter.
http://www.depressionquest.com/
Reasonable enough?
Yes, sorry for snarkyness. It was more the contrast with your usual friendly behaviour that got me commenting.

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Re: I regret everything.

Post by Korban3 » Sat Aug 30, 2014 4:53 am

Mm, that's right.
Fox is a US media pig that spews garbage under the label "News", despite the fact that it is actually an official entertainment subsidiary and has been ruled by the Supreme Court to be legally allowed to put forth opinions and blatant fallacies as truth. They do so often and it's disgusting.

Might have to check it out then. Hopes low, but eh.

Life sucks and being nice hasn't ever made it any better.

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Re: I regret everything.

Post by Glabbit » Sat Aug 30, 2014 8:49 am

Korban3 wrote:being nice hasn't ever made it any better.
Objection!
Being nice has made life better for other people.
And the favour can easily be returned!

For example, we'd be doing the world a favour by utilising a couple bazookas and tanks aimed vaguely at the Fox news studios.
That would be a very nice thing to do.

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Re: I regret everything.

Post by Phoenixwarrior141 » Sat Aug 30, 2014 10:17 am

Glabbit wrote: Objection!
Being nice has made life better for other people.
And the favour can easily be returned!

For example, we'd be doing the world a favour by utilising a couple bazookas and tanks aimed vaguely at the Fox news studios.
That would be a very nice thing to do.
See above.
Endoperez wrote: She is a cyborg, though (she has some sort of microchip in her hand which she used to start up or install the new Deus Ex)
Where the fuck can I get one of those?

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Re: I regret everything.

Post by Korban3 » Sat Aug 30, 2014 11:03 am

Glabbit wrote:
Korban3 wrote:being nice hasn't ever made it any better.
Objection!
Being nice has made life better for other people.
And the favour can easily be returned!

For example, we'd be doing the world a favour by utilising a couple bazookas and tanks aimed vaguely at the Fox news studios.
That would be a very nice thing to do.
Put a one and at least three zeros in front of that dollar sign and you've got a deal.

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