So I'm making a game in GameMaker...

Anything else
User avatar
Phoenixwarrior141
Posts: 1433
Joined: Fri Aug 02, 2013 12:37 pm
Location: I've lost all sense of direction, I'm quite concerned to be honest.

So I'm making a game in GameMaker...

Post by Phoenixwarrior141 » Wed Nov 26, 2014 3:26 am

Because I've been talking (To friends and family) recently about making a game like it was already done, I decided to announce the development of an actual game for the first time, and strangely, it's gonna be hard as fuck to make. And since I always try to at least START what I announce, this might be the little push I need to get shit done. Of course, this is probably more ill-fated then the map series I wanted to get done so desperately (Which, thanks to the instability of OG, never got done no matter how hard I tried), but at least I can be bothered to try with this, since GM is a lot more stable and in the end, easier to use then OG, I have higher hopes. Especially since my vision isn't anything particularly hard, but definitely out of my range of skills (Because... first game after all).

So, if I ever can be bothered to get your hopes up, don't. It's probably not gonna happen.

And if I wasn't in that shitty rout of some weird mix of minor depression, procrastination and other projects that I'd rather do at the time, it's worse this time: Since my dog died a little bit ago (October 14th, so not really), school has picked up and it doesn't exactly give me a lot of time.

So yes, things haven't exactly perked up in the few months between the attempt at map making, and now. And my ye old saying of "Life can eat my ass I'm getting this shit done" has failed me (Like a Storm Bolter on a Space Hulk) and that project was both easier and more interesting to me, since OG was among my first PC games.

So, in short, don't expect anything. Even if it get's done, don't expect much either. This isn't to build hype (Since you probably won't be able to play it anyways, given how GM works with Steam, and I don't want to release and Alpha version to distribution platforms of any-kind) but to give me the push to make it.

Of course, this is less to do with my (And I don't want to even call it depression since I still laugh and be happy like someone without depression) rout and general down-in-the-dumps-ness and more my procrastination. So don't pity me if the project doesn't get done

Of course, this is a lot of self-pity and shit, so, let's skip that part and get into the actual game idea (Since I haven't... made it yet) shall we? :)

The idea itself isn't anything original, not in the slightest, but from what I'm hoping to make it'll be somewhat interesting:

The game takes place on a large open map with a variety of forests and towns with connecting roads. Units (Hexagons intended to representative of battalions) travel faster on roads connecting the city nodes, and certain units get bonuses to fighting in cities, or don't suffer the de-buff for fighting on roads. Each hexagon unit is a battalion, and each battalion is made of squads of various units (Ranging from conscripts to elite vanguard units), which each serve different purposes. This brings me to combat, which I have multiple ideas about: The first being that each squad has various stats and bonuses which are added to the baseline chance to win regardless, and totaled up to a percentage and compared to the other (Which also gets a sustained combat bonus, allowing you to roll multiple times) and the one who succeeds his roll wins with a few results within that percentage.

Here's an example:

Battalion A assaults Battalion B, both have units of same tier and similar stats. Both have 75% to succeed. Both sides have the sustained combat bonus: Battalion A Succeeds their role and fails to destroy the enemy battalion, Battalion B fails and thus gets to re-roll as well. Battalion B fails their roll and Battalion A succeeds and forces the enemy to route.

This system could be further altered by adding in checks, for example after each combat with the sustained combat bonus each side rolls a save on whether or not they suffer casualties (And there are multiple chances for different results, or maybe each squad rolls the save), and then a route check based on commander skill, or a fallback move and they have roll a save on whether they get attacked or followed.

This system has it's own problems though:

- Luck, a unique problem itself

- Stat boosting: Where people can take meh units and boost them with tons of buffs and hope they pass their checks and make their saves, which will net them the win unless the enemy can stack more buffs (Or better buffs) then them.

Then there's another system, where all the status and bonuses are totaled up and given a numerical total, and that's compared to the enemies to get the result in comparison to a unit's point cost.

Avoiding the topic of the damage systems further (Debate below if you wish though :D ), the units are battalions and battalions are made of squads. Squads allocated to battalions using a point allocation system that millions of games use before.

You CANNOT refill units once you're in the field.

Base-building plays a minimal aspect of the game, and instead is mostly used to create small outposts on the fringes of nowhere to defend against random ambushes.

That's all I hope, any suggestions are welcome, development should actually begin soon.

Gulp...

User avatar
Endoperez
Posts: 5668
Joined: Sun Jan 11, 2009 7:41 am
Location: cold and dark and lovely Finland

Re: So I'm making a game in GameMaker...

Post by Endoperez » Wed Nov 26, 2014 4:13 pm

Phoenixwarrior141 wrote: Since my dog died a little bit ago (October 14th, so not really)
I'm sorry to hear that . :(
The idea itself isn't anything original, not in the slightest, but from what I'm hoping to make it'll be somewhat interesting:
If your idea was original, it'd make for a bad first project because you'd have very few examples to study from. It looks like a good choice for a first real game project, assuming you know the tools already.


The game takes place on a large open map with a variety of forests and towns with connecting roads. Units (Hexagons intended to representative of battalions) travel faster on roads connecting the city nodes, and certain units get bonuses to fighting in cities, or don't suffer the de-buff for fighting on roads.
So the maps are going to be hex based. Does gamemaker have any readymade tools for it, and if not, have you found any tutorials on doing it?
Here's a Gamasutra article on hexes that you might find useful, especially the part about planning it out by drawing block grids. Also tip nr 9 points out some of the useful mathematical usages of hex grids.

Here's an example:

Battalion A assaults Battalion B, both have units of same tier and similar stats. Both have 75% to succeed. Both sides have the sustained combat bonus: Battalion A Succeeds their role and fails to destroy the enemy battalion, Battalion B fails and thus gets to re-roll as well. Battalion B fails their roll and Battalion A succeeds and forces the enemy to route.
It seems like one roll is a d100, also called a percentile roll/die, or a random number between 1 and 100. I was a bit confused in the beginning because I'm used to smaller rolls.

Any way, you can figure out probabilities of a die roll using http://www.anydice.com , if you decide to go with something that's too complicated to asses quickly on paper. For example, taking the best or worst result out of two rolls, or calculating the number of successes in five rolls, and so on. It probably can't calculate several successive rounds, but it might be useful.


There might be a few problems on the balance, but finishing a game even with balance problems would still be a good result. That way you know more about the sorts of problems that combat system has.
You CANNOT refill units once you're in the field.

Base-building plays a minimal aspect of the game, and instead is mostly used to create small outposts on the fringes of nowhere to defend against random ambushes.

That's all I hope, any suggestions are welcome, development should actually begin soon.
If the outposts have a noticeable effect on combat, and you can't refill units during a game, they will have inflated value because being able to prevent combat damage is almost as good as healing or life-steal effects would be. Unless you have a way to force the player to play quickly and not try to stall until the enemy attacks his units in the outposts. Some sort of a hard limit on outposts seems like a good idea.

It seems like a perfectly doable little game. The balance is probably the easist thing to give useful feedback on, so if you have some more concrete stuff on that, you could post that and have the people in here go over those a good while before you start actually implementing them. It's easier to change your plans than your code.

I tend to have problems finishing projects. I suggest deciding (internally) on some sort of a target date for a specific, small,very strictly defined part of this. For example, a working hex grid where you can choose which tiles are drawn where. 10 basic tiles that allow you to do certain things. Units moving on hexes that know the terrain type of the hex they are on. Doing it this way you get lots of little successes, which helps keep you motivated somewhat better.

Good luck with this one! Making games is fun. :)

User avatar
Phoenixwarrior141
Posts: 1433
Joined: Fri Aug 02, 2013 12:37 pm
Location: I've lost all sense of direction, I'm quite concerned to be honest.

Re: So I'm making a game in GameMaker...

Post by Phoenixwarrior141 » Wed Nov 26, 2014 7:15 pm

Endoperez wrote:
I'm sorry to hear that . :(
I think I've gotten over it, but it's kinda weird not having a dog after having one for five years.

Avoiding that topic further...


If your idea was original, it'd make for a bad first project because you'd have very few examples to study from. It looks like a good choice for a first real game project, assuming you know the tools already.
Er...

Shit.



So the maps are going to be hex based. Does gamemaker have any readymade tools for it, and if not, have you found any tutorials on doing it?
Here's a Gamasutra article on hexes that you might find useful, especially the part about planning it out by drawing block grids. Also tip nr 9 points out some of the useful mathematical usages of hex grids.
To my knowledge, no, though I could probably use some script for it. But since there is a script to allow units in an RTS to move independently of any grid, I'm not too scared about it.


It seems like one roll is a d100, also called a percentile roll/die, or a random number between 1 and 100. I was a bit confused in the beginning because I'm used to smaller rolls.

Any way, you can figure out probabilities of a die roll using http://www.anydice.com , if you decide to go with something that's too complicated to asses quickly on paper. For example, taking the best or worst result out of two rolls, or calculating the number of successes in five rolls, and so on. It probably can't calculate several successive rounds, but it might be useful.


There might be a few problems on the balance, but finishing a game even with balance problems would still be a good result. That way you know more about the sorts of problems that combat system has.
Do you have any suggestions on how to make that system a little better though?

One thing I thought in addition to the current combat system would be that once combat begins the player could move his squads around the line and re-position his units with a set distance from the enemy. Think Sunless Sea's combat.
If the outposts have a noticeable effect on combat, and you can't refill units during a game, they will have inflated value because being able to prevent combat damage is almost as good as healing or life-steal effects would be. Unless you have a way to force the player to play quickly and not try to stall until the enemy attacks his units in the outposts. Some sort of a hard limit on outposts seems like a good idea.
There's the thing though, each outpost would require an engineer battalion (Or a set amount of squads in a battalion) to construct, this means that the hard limit on bases is equal to the amount of engineer battalions you bring to the field. My plan to balance engineers is to give them a de-buff to their route chance and re-position chance, along with a major de-buff to open combat and minor de-buff the urban combat.

It seems like a perfectly doable little game. The balance is probably the easist thing to give useful feedback on, so if you have some more concrete stuff on that, you could post that and have the people in here go over those a good while before you start actually implementing them. It's easier to change your plans than your code.
That's what I planned to do in the first place, brainstorming is just as much fun as actually making the product.

Also, yay! It's possible!

I tend to have problems finishing projects. I suggest deciding (internally) on some sort of a target date for a specific, small,very strictly defined part of this. For example, a working hex grid where you can choose which tiles are drawn where. 10 basic tiles that allow you to do certain things. Units moving on hexes that know the terrain type of the hex they are on. Doing it this way you get lots of little successes, which helps keep you motivated somewhat better.

Good luck with this one! Making games is fun. :)
I'm going to need that luck desperately...

I'm hoping to have the following by relatively early 2015:

- Functionally moving units

- Rudimentary art for allies and enemies

- 4 units for both sides

- Forests

And in the final game:

- Relatively good art for ally hexes and enemy hexes

- A good amount of units, with descriptions

- A relatively intuitive interface (Main menu and such)

- A balanced combat system

- Random maps (Different environments included)

- Cities and roads

- Mechanized units

- Base-building

User avatar
Endoperez
Posts: 5668
Joined: Sun Jan 11, 2009 7:41 am
Location: cold and dark and lovely Finland

Re: So I'm making a game in GameMaker...

Post by Endoperez » Wed Nov 26, 2014 7:37 pm

Phoenixwarrior141 wrote:

If your idea was original, it'd make for a bad first project because you'd have very few examples to study from. It looks like a good choice for a first real game project, assuming you know the tools already.
Er...

Shit.
If you're not familiar with the tools, test out everything as a separate project or scene or file. You might have to try two, three or more times before you figure a good way to do something. Changing youur main game files that often is slow, and might result in bugs if you forget something.

I don't know your combat system yet - numbers matter a lot, here. d100 + 50 from buffs max and +25 from terrain max is v. different from d100 + 15 buffs +70 from terrain (maximums, again). 'Remember to write down your goals, not just your ideas on how you think you're going to reach it. Rules might change, goals don't need to.

Descriptions are a good idea. A short description can bring a blue warrior with 1 higher strength alive, as an entirely different character from the red warrior with 1 higher accuracy. Viking and knight, maybe, or mercenary and militia, or fire-and-forget soldier with good supply lines and resource-poor soldier trained to conserve bullets and go for certain kills.

Look up a reference for the art. Making a good character or background sprite that could fit in a different game is easier than coming up with a cool visual design for a game. This project is practice and doesn't need original art style - original sprites are already quite a bit of work.

User avatar
Phoenixwarrior141
Posts: 1433
Joined: Fri Aug 02, 2013 12:37 pm
Location: I've lost all sense of direction, I'm quite concerned to be honest.

Re: So I'm making a game in GameMaker...

Post by Phoenixwarrior141 » Wed Nov 26, 2014 9:17 pm

Endoperez wrote:
If you're not familiar with the tools, test out everything as a separate project or scene or file. You might have to try two, three or more times before you figure a good way to do something. Changing youur main game files that often is slow, and might result in bugs if you forget something.
That's what I was planning to do, since I have a spare testing file.


I don't know your combat system yet - numbers matter a lot, here. d100 + 50 from buffs max and +25 from terrain max is v. different from d100 + 15 buffs +70 from terrain (maximums, again). 'Remember to write down your goals, not just your ideas on how you think you're going to reach it. Rules might change, goals don't need to.
I'm having debates on the exact numerical value of the bonuses for terrain and such, but here's how the system would work:

All stats and bonuses are added up and then turned into a percentage. That percentage is the percentage of victory against the enemy battalion. When the interface opens that shows the combat as it happens, you have your soldiers on one side and the enemy on the other. The middle shows some minor things, like distance and chances of victory. The player can do things like re-position, which will increase the distance between them (And give them a favorable position bonus) at the cost of each squad needing to make a re-position check, a chance for a squad to take damage if they fail the check. A squad with the sustained combat bonus will attack multiple times instead of either routing or dying entirely.

Multi-battalion combat requires each battalion to make those rolls independently, not adding up the total of each percentage in the battalion.

Alternatively, I'm contemplating simply auto-resolving the battles with the unit falling back every now and again if they fail their role with sustained combat.

Example With Method 1: Battalion A attacks Battalion B, they attack each other until one decides to re-position, one squad fails it's check and dies, while the rest of the battalion engages. Battalion B retreats and Battalion A charges after them. Eventually one dies.

Example with Method 2: Every few seconds the losing battalion retreats, each squad making the same roll. The squads will not take damage every 2.5 seconds (When they make their rolls, or if they retreat and press on) if the succeed their save and will deal damage to the enemy if the enemy fails their save, the losing side will retreat to a more favorable position.

Descriptions are a good idea. A short description can bring a blue warrior with 1 higher strength alive, as an entirely different character from the red warrior with 1 higher accuracy. Viking and knight, maybe, or mercenary and militia, or fire-and-forget soldier with good supply lines and resource-poor soldier trained to conserve bullets and go for certain kills.
I was also planning to use those to give a short "This is what the unit is and how powerful they are" from the description, and also shed some light on the lore.

Here's something I wrote for the conscript unit, which will be there when you select that unit from the menu before a battle (Like the flash game 1066):

"33rd Conscript Detachment:

A low paid, under-trained militia force generally used by the Advanced Security Division as recon units on the fringes of Coalition controlled space, they also accompany the Recruit Combat Division on low risk operations before they receive their training to become full fledged soldiers. Low paid, ill-equipped, low morale soldiers but are known to fight vigorously on the battlefield, known even to shadow trained soldiers with sheer vigor and force due to friendships forged in the untold hours of patrols. Generally used as cannon fodder with Tier 1 ammunition, not even worthy of civilian usage.

{Read More}

When first contact was made with the Legios Traitors on the fringes of unclaimed Coalition space by a small conscript patrol, it went unnoticed until a second patrol went missing in the same sector of space, even planet while searching for the lost patrol. The commanders of the Recruit Combat Division sent the supposedly worthless soldiers to the planet en mass, 3 dropships full of soldiers made first contact with Legios Raiders and decimated, drawing the attention of the Coalition and leading to it dedicating the 33rd division to the planet to locate the source of these atrocities being committed upon the soldiers. They were stopped by the Vanguard, the 39th Legion of the 50 Legions existing on the fringes of the galaxy forged in the fires of war, The Vanguard betrayed the Coalition and with the engagement of Coalition forces the First Battle of Zergon Primis, named after the administrator Legios had appointed to watch over the desert planet, had begun. The battle was decisively lost in the first two days. Multiple attempts to encircle the Vanguard Legion had failed and the southern hemisphere and eastern sector was lost to the Vanguards. The Coalition would not allow for such a treasonous act to go unpunished by these rebels, especially a former diplomat who was popular among the Legions as he had a hand in their creation. The 42nd Infantry Detachment was sent to destroy the traitor threat, and round up the 33rd. The battle continued for a week until the 33rd was rounded up completely, now under the command of Lieutenant Jackson, a favorite field commander among the Conscripted 33rd. Under his diligent and tactical command the conscripts completed their part in the attempt to destroy the traitor forces and render them nullified on the field. The commander of the Legion surrendered to the 33rd once they destroyed his Legion, however the Commander forcibly gored Jackson before he was killed by a nearby squad. The 33rd played a major part in the following weeks as the situation on Zergon Primis deteriorated until it was announced by their acting Commander: "The situation has deteriorated far beyond our meager control, and the chain of command has failed us." Shortly after, Brigades and Units ceased to exist, and instead the Squads were placed in Battalions, and under the command of a Strike Commander, to nullify this threat and end the Legios Uprising".

Look up a reference for the art. Making a good character or background sprite that could fit in a different game is easier than coming up with a cool visual design for a game. This project is practice and doesn't need original art style - original sprites are already quite a bit of work.
The art I want to do is actually quite simple, it's just a small little art to show what a squad is made of. Like the conscripts are helmeted and have a hood gas-mask and such.

User avatar
Korban3
Posts: 4146
Joined: Tue May 31, 2011 9:14 pm
Location: 42nd St E, Hell

Re: So I'm making a game in GameMaker...

Post by Korban3 » Thu Nov 27, 2014 12:54 am

msg 4 halp
will halp

User avatar
Phoenixwarrior141
Posts: 1433
Joined: Fri Aug 02, 2013 12:37 pm
Location: I've lost all sense of direction, I'm quite concerned to be honest.

Re: So I'm making a game in GameMaker...

Post by Phoenixwarrior141 » Thu Nov 27, 2014 2:23 am

Did not help.

Well fuck.

User avatar
Korban3
Posts: 4146
Joined: Tue May 31, 2011 9:14 pm
Location: 42nd St E, Hell

Re: So I'm making a game in GameMaker...

Post by Korban3 » Thu Nov 27, 2014 2:33 am

y u no msg
msg 4 halp will halp

User avatar
Phoenixwarrior141
Posts: 1433
Joined: Fri Aug 02, 2013 12:37 pm
Location: I've lost all sense of direction, I'm quite concerned to be honest.

Re: So I'm making a game in GameMaker...

Post by Phoenixwarrior141 » Mon Dec 01, 2014 2:46 pm

Bumping this to show off my shiny new to-do list:

Note: This is in order, so I can actually know where to start which is what seems to be daunting me the most.

- Create Friendly Battalion Sprite *DONE*

- Create Enemy Battalion Sprite *DONE*

- Create Basic UI

- Create Map

- Create the battle system (Including the various sub-units of squads and such, as mentioned before)

- Create point allocation system.

- Get Cities to work properly.

- Shiny Main Menu.

User avatar
Endoperez
Posts: 5668
Joined: Sun Jan 11, 2009 7:41 am
Location: cold and dark and lovely Finland

Re: So I'm making a game in GameMaker...

Post by Endoperez » Mon Dec 01, 2014 5:55 pm

Yay, to-do lists!

If you want any feedback on your graphics, post an image or screenshot. It's hard to comment on anything else until you've got some sort of a prototype. :D

User avatar
Phoenixwarrior141
Posts: 1433
Joined: Fri Aug 02, 2013 12:37 pm
Location: I've lost all sense of direction, I'm quite concerned to be honest.

Re: So I'm making a game in GameMaker...

Post by Phoenixwarrior141 » Mon Dec 01, 2014 7:19 pm

It's actually so simple that you can make it in Paint right now.

Friendly Battalions are Blue Hexagons (I'm fiddling with colors)

Enemy Battalions are Red Hexagons

Future Other Faction once this is finished: Green.

It's gonna look really basic (Just a red/blue hexagon filled with the same color of red/blue) and until I can be bothered to fiddle with colors and shade it and make it look good.

I'll fiddle with those later, since they work and look pretty good as is

Meanwhile the basic city looks like a 100 by 100 grey circle with the name above it (Black text box).

Anyways, next up is UI. Oh dear.

User avatar
Endoperez
Posts: 5668
Joined: Sun Jan 11, 2009 7:41 am
Location: cold and dark and lovely Finland

Re: So I'm making a game in GameMaker...

Post by Endoperez » Tue Dec 02, 2014 3:10 am

Phoenixwarrior141 wrote:Anyways, next up is UI. Oh dear.
You should first find out all the information and options players need to see.

Consider how often player needs to check that info or use that option, and make the important ones bigger, and hide the less used options under a menu or something like that. For example, a disband or city building option is used only once per game (per unit), but move command is used basically every turn.

If you start implementing them one by one, the screen will likely get cluttered and everything will look equally important.

User avatar
Phoenixwarrior141
Posts: 1433
Joined: Fri Aug 02, 2013 12:37 pm
Location: I've lost all sense of direction, I'm quite concerned to be honest.

Re: So I'm making a game in GameMaker...

Post by Phoenixwarrior141 » Tue Dec 02, 2014 10:18 pm

My plan for the out-of-battle UI is:

- Tutorials are at the bottom of the screen

- Clicking on a battalion will show the following (The UI is separated into rectangular sections):

Top Section (Title Bar): Name of the Battalion

Upper Section: List of squads

Slight Below The Large Upper Section: Description

Below That: Total Stats

Bottom Bar: List of commands (Unique to the unit)

User avatar
Phoenixwarrior141
Posts: 1433
Joined: Fri Aug 02, 2013 12:37 pm
Location: I've lost all sense of direction, I'm quite concerned to be honest.

Re: So I'm making a game in GameMaker...

Post by Phoenixwarrior141 » Sat Dec 13, 2014 3:20 am

Bumping this because I have a random question:

Which program would be suitable for creating the sprites?

Paint doesn't work as I've learned.

User avatar
Endoperez
Posts: 5668
Joined: Sun Jan 11, 2009 7:41 am
Location: cold and dark and lovely Finland

Re: So I'm making a game in GameMaker...

Post by Endoperez » Sat Dec 13, 2014 3:49 am

Phoenixwarrior141 wrote:Bumping this because I have a random question:

Which program would be suitable for creating the sprites?

Paint doesn't work as I've learned.
You need something with transparency. Layers are amazing.

GIMP ( GNU image manipulation program.... Yeah) is the most powerful, I think. Lots of options and tools. It might not be the easiest to use.

If you are going for pixel look or even small non-pixel sprites, there might be specialized sprite editors. I'm not very familiar with the free tools though. :(

Post Reply