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I can't remember the name, but there's some kind of scientific law that for something to exist it must have been created by something.

Apply this law to the universe, and you've got god. Why? Because the universe is matter, time and space, so to create the universe, you need to exist outside matter, time and space.

And don't say that god needed something to create him, he's god, so he probably invented that rule.

/random speculation

invertin wrote:And don't say that god needed something to create him, he's god, so he probably invented that rule.

That's illogical. How would God create himself?

Also, that's not a rule of the universe. It's a law. A law that can be proven false when enough evidence exists to disprove it. You can't take it as the absolute rule of the universe.

Renegade_Turner wrote:How would anything create anything if there had to be something there at the start to create everything else? Who created that?

Exactly, which is why you can't take the 'law' at face value.

I think the law itself is more of a proverb/philosophical saying from 1000's of years ago. Though I can't really say since I can't find it stated specifically anywhere.

R_T: Same logic would applied in wondering about the beginning of time; Where did the first atom come from, how did more come, etc.

Well considering that until God created it there wasn't such a thing as reality I don't think he needs to be created.

Actually ignore that that's just confusing as hell.

And it isn't an ancient proverb it's an actual scientific thing.

So using that logic that God could not have existed because he would need to be created, and applying that to the most common scientific theory- the big bang, where did that first atom come from that all matter apparantly came from?

invertin wrote:Well considering that until God created it there wasn't such a thing as reality I don't think he needs to be created.

Actually ignore that that's just confusing as hell.

Okay... I'll ignore it. But if someone were to post something like the above I would have said that it was circular logic.

invertin wrote:And it isn't an ancient proverb it's an actual scientific thing.

I'd sure love you to find a website or anything with this exact law. I looked and couldn't find anything.

So using that logic that God could not have existed because he would need to be created, and applying that to the most common scientific theory- the big bang, where did that first atom come from that all matter apparantly came from?

Which is why we have scientists trying to discover these things. No one said science is truth. It's merely a representation of our idea of the universe from what we can observe. We can't observe the beginning of the universe, so we make a guess as to how it started based on the current position of objects we can see.

I'm sure the Big Bang theory will be disproved within the next 100 years anyways.

I'm quite sure the Big Bang is more philosophy than science anyway, isn't it?

invertin wrote:Well considering that until God created it there wasn't such a thing as reality I don't think he needs to be created.

Huh? That seems to be taking "God" as a factual condition in this argument. When did this occur?

Also...

TheBigCheese wrote:

invertin wrote:And it isn't an ancient proverb it's an actual scientific thing.

I'd sure love you to find a website or anything with this exact law. I looked and couldn't find anything.

Do you not find that a tad hypocritical? Considering you yourself said the following...

TheBigCheese wrote:I think the law itself is more of a proverb/philosophical saying from 1000's of years ago. Though I can't really say since I can't find it stated specifically anywhere.

Maybe you were genuinely asking him to find you a page with it as it would be interesting to you, but I think the chance of that being the case is about 0.0001%. You sounded as if you were being satiristically disbelieving of him and thought he was making it up.

...Renegade... you can Diss/put up a good argument like no one I've seen...

Renegade_Turner wrote:Huh? That seems to be taking "God" as a factual condition in this argument. When did this occur?

I should've said something like "If god existed then he would have-"

But at the time I couldn't think of any other way of phrasing it.

The answer is scribbled on a wall somewhere in Whuttevvah 9.

Jimmy Jazz wrote:...Renegade... you can Diss/put up a good argument like no one I've seen...

Is "diss" an abbreviation for something? If you mean the slang term then I wasn't trying to, umm, diss anyone. I'm not sure if I'm being complimented or scorned, but thanks.