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Endoperez wrote:How is that silly? I haven't played Prototype, but a 100% achievement (like collecting all orbs/stars/puzzle pieces/whatever) takes lots of skill in most games, much more so than using one weapon a most FPS games.

That may well be the case, but in the example Ren is referring to there is absolutely zero challenge. Prototype has 250* orbs scattered about the environment, usually on top of various buildings. They aren't marked on the mini-map or anything, so finding them all prettymuch requires the player to meticulously go over the whole map, block by block and building by building. It's rather... numbing.

That said, I understand the compulsion to complete a game to the fullest extent possible. I do it with any game that I genuinely enjoy.

Regarding achievements in general, they can be a nice touch if done correctly. Many games have achievements for things like "finish level 3" and such**. I mean, how could I possibly not get that? It's pathetic. Also, many games have achievements based on repeating a fairly simple action over and over. Examples would be "get 50 headshots with X weapon" or "hijack 30 cars of type Z" and so forth. Tedium ensues.


*200 "landmarks" and 50 utterly useless hints.
**Lookin' at you, Resident Evil 5.

Zhukov wrote:That may well be the case, but in the example Ren is referring to there is absolutely zero challenge. Prototype has 250* orbs scattered about the environment, usually on top of various buildings. They aren't marked on the mini-map or anything, so finding them all prettymuch requires the player to meticulously go over the whole map, block by block and building by building. It's rather... numbing.

I see. It does sound silly. I also liked ^_^'s take on this: an actual gameplay reward for 100% completion is fun. It's also been done that way for a long time. While I was reading that post, I realised destroying all the cameras on level 1 of System Shock 1 is an "achievement" where the actual reward is a new gun instead of an out-of-character message.

Glabbit wrote:that's a hell of a lot of knifing you did thar =D

I started off using guns, but then I got in a close battle with a Helgast and switched to my knife quickly. Then I noticed that the knife did enough damage to kill either instantly or in two hits, depending on where you hit. I also noticed that there was no stamina bar, so you could sprint as long as you wanted...

As for gameplay rewards for 100% completion, it only really works if the game is a sandbox like Prototype or GTA or whatever. If the game is say, Super Mario 64, it kind of defeats the point when you get 120 lives that you will never use because you've already done everything.

The only achievements I've liked were in the old platform games. You can get unlockable characters, weapons, alternate story ending, and those things. But now, it's things like, sprint 20 miles (GOW I think) and find a friggin skull. (Halo games) Why can't we go back to the olden days?

Endoperez wrote:How is that silly? I haven't played Prototype, but a 100% achievement (like collecting all orbs/stars/puzzle pieces/whatever) takes lots of skill in most games, much more so than using one weapon a most FPS games.

I really can't see how trawling through a game's landscape for meaningless orbs takes any skill whatsoever.

Also, I really don't see how something requiring skill or effort makes it worthwhile. That's like saying that going through a haystack for a needle is worthwhile because the needle was hard to find.

Searching for a needles in haystacks is pretty silly. Especially if there's 250 needles.

That was a really good comparison.
(no sarcasm)

Renegade_Turner wrote:I really can't see how trawling through a game's landscape for meaningless orbs takes any skill whatsoever.

Also, I really don't see how something requiring skill or effort makes it worthwhile. That's like saying that going through a haystack for a needle is worthwhile because the needle was hard to find.

I mentioned that I had not played prototype and that 100% achievement is hard in MOST games. Thanks to Zhukov's post, I now know that Prototype is not one of these games, and that finding the orbs isn't about skill but about boredom. I was thinking of something like Beyond Good & Evil, where the orbs or spheres you collected were a form of currency and helped to advance the game, but it wasn't necessary to collect all of them (and in fact, I did miss one).

I agree that something requiring lots of effort and no skill at all would feel meaningless. Grinding is like that, and I don't like it. I disagree about a difficult thing not being worthwhile. One of the most satisfying things in games is when you manage to do something hard and get on with the game, or find that little secret, or get that extra item or reward. Obviously it's not fun if it's too hard, so a good balance is important.

They need to make all Achievements, "Secret Achievements", thus you have no idea what you're supposed to do to make your e-penis longer. Therefore, when you finally get an achievement you'll bask in the glow of doing something worthwhile (like going outside and hitting cars with your abnormally long e-penis) or you'll bask in the half-baked sense that you just spent over two hours searching the landscape for all 250 golden phallic statues of Thor and didn't get anything at all.

Grayswandir wrote:They need to make all Achievements, "Secret Achievements", thus you have no idea what you're supposed to do to make your e-penis longer.

Wouldn't work. People would compile a list of achievement requirements and put it online.

Endoperez wrote:

Grayswandir wrote:They need to make all Achievements, "Secret Achievements", thus you have no idea what you're supposed to do to make your e-penis longer.

Wouldn't work. People would compile a list of achievement requirements and put it online.

Yes, I know, but it would make you work for your e-penis.
http://www.xbox360achievements.org/ this site lists them all.

I consider this an achievement. xD

Sandurz wrote:The only achievements I've liked were in the old platform games. You can get unlockable characters, weapons, alternate story ending, and those things. But now, it's things like, sprint 20 miles (GOW I think) and find a friggin skull. (Halo games) Why can't we go back to the olden days?

Ah, yes, characters, story endings... Yes... You're right, I do miss that. A lot.
There's something much more satisfying about unlocking something you can do things with than a little trophy saying "You did it!"

I kind of liked the way they did it with Halo 3. Where Achievements give you armor.

Because, even though it didn't do anything, the armor was enough of a reward that people wanted it.

And any Halo nerd will give their respect to a guy walking around in security armor or (GASP) recon armor.

What I don't like is when multiplayer games give you better equipment based on what you've done, like BF 2142 or Call of Duty 4, because it just unbalances the game. Probably the same reason I don't play MMORPGs.

The weapons in CoD4 were pretty balanced, sure rising in rank got you "better" weapons but the starting sets were good and the Perks that you could apply to yourself at higher levels didn't keep you from dying from an accurate shot or a well placed grenade.