All Points Bulletin

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Ragdollmaster
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Re: All Points Bulletin

Post by Ragdollmaster » Mon May 03, 2010 3:38 pm

>you are honestly making an ass and a fool out of yourself, JUST SAYIN'.

I had to stop and laugh here. If you think your subjective opinion can be stated as fact and used in an argument, then you are not only sadly mistaken but also rather ignorant and/or egocentric- either way, you're not in a position to call people foolish.

>now i do not think i agree completely with that statement completely, but i can see what he means. ie. sooo manny fucking games now use the same health system that was introduced in halo.

No, they don't. Halo used a regenerative shield coupled with finite health. Most games these days have regenerative health occasionally coupled with finite armor or shields. Get your facts straight.

>and basically what you are doing now is knocking something before you try it. Blorx is beta testing it so i would honestly take his opinion and info on it over your shitty word generalizing every MMORPG as a grindfest.

I'm actually basing most of my review on three other Beta testers opinions from Toribash. And in case you can't do math or statistics too well, a pool of 3 testers offers a much more accurate general response than a single tester, the same way a jury of 12 trumps the judge of one.

>have you ever even made it to ANY endgame play of ANY MMORPG? or even just QUESTED instead of grinding? yikes.

Actually, yes, and in most quest-based MMORPGs, there are no 'endgames' or 'final quests', if you haven't noticed. My other point for this quote is that grinding, in my usage of the word, encompasses any repetitive act done in a video game (in this case an MMORPG) in exchange for an end reward. Grinding as in killing thousands of monsters for experience over and over again is one example- but in pretty much every MMORPG I've played, the quests eventually devolve into grinding as well. They become "get from A to B and deliver item X" or "kill X monsters and gather X spoils"; quests grind.

>lastly, your end request for him to explain more of the in-depth customization and all the other good stuff. blorx SPECIFICALLY mentions that it is still under NDA, and if you don't know what that means.

it means. NON DISCLOSURE AGREEMENT

Very nice, you knew to Google the acronym so you could seem clever when you pointed out what it stood for. But do you even know what a Non-Disclosure Agreement covers, save for what you read on Wikipedia? No? Let me lay this down for you: He's not allowed to disclose any information about the content and mechanics not already announced. He is, however, allowed to write out already-announced information in a way that lets you 'read between the lines', so to speak, to learn more. Eg;

"Example of the new customization system plz."
"Well, I can't discuss much, but as was mentioned the new system goes beyond simple cosmetic alteration (this is where it gets into the borderline 'spoiler' material) into more practical usages such as changing cars/guns/whatever."

Considering how customization was publicly announced, he wouldn't be breaking any part of his NDA with the company so long as he didn't specifically mention anything, like:

"Example of the new customization system plz."
"OH IT'S GREAT YOU CAN BUY A JET ENGINE FOR YOUR CAR AND TRIPLE UNDER-BARREL GRENADE LAUNCHERS FOR ANY WEAPON YOU WANT, VERY USEFUL."

>QQ plz

Up to that point, your argument had been at the very least decently intelligent, even with all of the grammatical errors and whatnot, but here's where it just fell apart. When you can't differentiate between intelligent conversation and a flame war, you're obviously not fit to participate. "QQ plz" is a statement that neither makes you look intelligent or like the authoritative winner, though you seem to be trying to convince yourself of the latter- which is almost as stupid as your former-most mistake of stating your opinion (a very convoluted and ignorant one at that) as fact. Please stop before I lose any more hope for mankind :|

EDIT: Oh, great, now Blorx wrote up another wall of text. I'll get around to that later :v

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Re: All Points Bulletin

Post by Blorx » Mon May 03, 2010 3:49 pm

Yes, I made another wall of text, but I'm not going to begin on how unintelligent your response is, in that you just don't get it. The details don't matter here, it's the principle that I'm getting at, and underthedeep seems to get that much.

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Re: All Points Bulletin

Post by Ragdollmaster » Mon May 03, 2010 4:21 pm

>Those are absolutely horrible comparisons.

Are they horrible because they prove your statement of "all FPSes are similar" wrong? Oblivion is indeed much more of an RPG than a shooter, but replace "arrows" with "bullets" and "spells" with "grenades" and it essentially turns into an 'shooter', all technicalities aside. You said all FPSes play similar, yet you exclude a very obvious example of one from the genre (Half-Life)- why?

>There are, but not if you look in the same niche. There's no difference between CoD and BF, other than gimmicks and graphics. Well, there's that and the fact that Battlefield Bad Company emulates the battlefield much more effectively.

Well, then we can agree on this: it depends on your viewpoint. Yes, there are plenty of FPSes similar to others, but there's a wide variance on the different 'niches', as you put it. You have the World War 2 shooters, the Space Marine shooters, the realistic modern shooters, the fantasy shooters, and so on.

>I would tell you, but the NDA tells me not to. Let me just say that in the case you decided to buy it for the 50 hours of gameplay (you're still getting 5x more playtime out of box than the average game), you will be pleasantly surprised. For one, driving is a challenge in itself, in that it's realistically emulated.

Point accepted.

>Like as in City of Heroes, Champions Online, or Star Trek Online? Take the customization in those games and they'll be crap compared to APB's level of customization.

Unfortunately, I haven't played any of these games, but from what I've heard they had a fairly wide selection of appearances, equipment, and weaponry and the like, so I suppose I can appreciate the scale of the customization system.

>In fact, I didn't do anything other than raise awareness for what I think is a great idea in the OP, and then defend my decision to do so. You guys are taking this entirely wrong.

We may be a little gung-ho for argument, but isn't it better to be proven wrong than to be an agreeable sheep from the beginning? I'd rather be well-informed than another fanboy overdosing on hype.

>A good example: Duke Nukem, Hexen, Heretic, Doom and Wolfenstein. They were all really similar games, and in fact one could say they were all reskins of each other. However, the thing that set them apart in the end was gimmicks. It's no different now.

I disagree. The era of games like Duke Nukem and Doom was one where video games had some pretty big restrictions and limitations on them; the possibilities of today are much wider than the possibilities of yesterday and all that. A lot of games just feel different to me, even when they seem similar in setting/aspect, before I can even identify what makes them feel like that.

>Thank you! I'm trying to give an objective opinion here. I'm not a game critic, I'm a game player and designer. I'm not even playing the finished game. It's full as hell of bugs. Doesn't change anything, it's still fun in my opinion, and so I'm telling you guys it is.

Then I'll have to apologize for any misunderstandings that made me rage :P From the way you were wording it (in my opinion) the post just seemed like a hype-generator, sorry.

>F2P MMOs and WoW clones are grindfests.

^You realize games fitting those description comprise about 95% of the MMO market?

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Re: All Points Bulletin

Post by Blorx » Mon May 03, 2010 4:34 pm

Ragdollmaster wrote:>Those are absolutely horrible comparisons.

Are they horrible because they prove your statement of "all FPSes are similar" wrong? Oblivion is indeed much more of an RPG than a shooter, but replace "arrows" with "bullets" and "spells" with "grenades" and it essentially turns into an 'shooter', all technicalities aside. You said all FPSes play similar, yet you exclude a very obvious example of one from the genre (Half-Life)- why?
They're not horrible for the reason that they try to disprove me wrong (I can neither confirm nor deny that they actually do, rather just restate previous disagreements), they're horrible for the reason that if you rearrange them, you'll start seeing what I meant a lot more.
Ragdollmaster wrote:>There are, but not if you look in the same niche. There's no difference between CoD and BF, other than gimmicks and graphics. Well, there's that and the fact that Battlefield Bad Company emulates the battlefield much more effectively.

Well, then we can agree on this: it depends on your viewpoint. Yes, there are plenty of FPSes similar to others, but there's a wide variance on the different 'niches', as you put it. You have the World War 2 shooters, the Space Marine shooters, the realistic modern shooters, the fantasy shooters, and so on.
And yet, they still feel a bit shallow after you've played through a few of them. Normally, people hold on to one good FPS per generation because they all are essentially the same with different gimmicks, like I said. This generation likes to tend towards a solo gung-ho style of gameplay which I don't agree with in the multiplayer side of things. What's the point of having teams in Halo 3 or MW2 when they encourage you to go on a rampage? These are the kind of things that make them feel the same, even though quite a few other things are significantly different. It's not the world, it's not the health bar, it's the way the game directs you to play that makes me think that.

It is in this sense that APB truly shines as something new for action fans, MMO fans, and shooter fans. It truly makes you think differently about strategies and the ways you team up to overcome enemies. I really wish they had covered player interaction on the field more so I could touch base on it for you guys. :| It truly is something unique and I love the way it's set up.
Ragdollmaster wrote:>I would tell you, but the NDA tells me not to. Let me just say that in the case you decided to buy it for the 50 hours of gameplay (you're still getting 5x more playtime out of box than the average game), you will be pleasantly surprised. For one, driving is a challenge in itself, in that it's realistically emulated.

Point accepted.
No one said you had to pay past it, just that you had to pay for the game and accept that they were giving you 50 hours to use as you pleased. :mrgreen:
Ragdollmaster wrote:>Like as in City of Heroes, Champions Online, or Star Trek Online? Take the customization in those games and they'll be crap compared to APB's level of customization.

Unfortunately, I haven't played any of these games, but from what I've heard they had a fairly wide selection of appearances, equipment, and weaponry and the like, so I suppose I can appreciate the scale of the customization system.
Okay, take Oblivion and triple the amount of settings to mess with and that's about what Cryptic usually aims to do. APB trumps that in not only your person, but in your car and your weapons, your tags, and even the music you hear. Somewhere, they talked about the music creator, so I will say that you can create your own theme to play when you die, and when you kill someone else, as well as for just about any other situation.
Ragdollmaster wrote:>In fact, I didn't do anything other than raise awareness for what I think is a great idea in the OP, and then defend my decision to do so. You guys are taking this entirely wrong.

We may be a little gung-ho for argument, but isn't it better to be proven wrong than to be an agreeable sheep from the beginning? I'd rather be well-informed than another fanboy overdosing on hype.
Well, I never hyped it until you guys started trashing it. :?
Ragdollmaster wrote:>A good example: Duke Nukem, Hexen, Heretic, Doom and Wolfenstein. They were all really similar games, and in fact one could say they were all reskins of each other. However, the thing that set them apart in the end was gimmicks. It's no different now.

I disagree. The era of games like Duke Nukem and Doom was one where video games had some pretty big restrictions and limitations on them; the possibilities of today are much wider than the possibilities of yesterday and all that. A lot of games just feel different to me, even when they seem similar in setting/aspect, before I can even identify what makes them feel like that.
Well, they're significantly different from Survival Run, which is arguably the first FPS ever made. Duck Hunt? There were ways to make it unique.
Ragdollmaster wrote:>Thank you! I'm trying to give an objective opinion here. I'm not a game critic, I'm a game player and designer. I'm not even playing the finished game. It's full as hell of bugs. Doesn't change anything, it's still fun in my opinion, and so I'm telling you guys it is.

Then I'll have to apologize for any misunderstandings that made me rage :P From the way you were wording it (in my opinion) the post just seemed like a hype-generator, sorry.
It's fine. I just aim to raise awareness about companies doing something new. Just like my posts about LOVE, and several other indie games. I raise awareness about indie games because I'm on an indie gaming board. I won't be starting topics about CoD: Black Ops or Halo: Reach.
Ragdollmaster wrote:>F2P MMOs and WoW clones are grindfests.

^You realize games fitting those description comprise about 95% of the MMO market?
And you realize that that last 5% is what I'm telling you about now? :mrgreen:

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Re: All Points Bulletin

Post by underthedeep » Mon May 03, 2010 10:05 pm

far to lazy to read all that, k you win lolz.

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Re: All Points Bulletin

Post by Blorx » Mon May 03, 2010 10:08 pm

lolz. It's not a matter of win or lose, it's a matter of people misinterpreting my OP. :|

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Re: All Points Bulletin

Post by underthedeep » Mon May 03, 2010 10:18 pm

TOE mate oh, TOE mah toe

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Re: All Points Bulletin

Post by Blorx » Mon May 03, 2010 10:24 pm

I almost didn't get that at first, but good point.

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Re: All Points Bulletin

Post by TheBigCheese » Tue May 04, 2010 10:56 am

If anyone thinks that MMO's are a grindfest, play EvE for 6 months in a player-run corporation, and then we'll talk. :wink:

As for APB, I watched about 6 of 23 gameplay leaks that some guy posted. It looked alright, but it didn't seem to revolutionary. The game itself seemed very fleeting: The world isn't persistant, you can't own territory, basically you just run around.

Maybe EvE and Infinity have spoiled my expectations of an MMO. :P

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Re: All Points Bulletin

Post by Renegade_Turner » Tue May 04, 2010 12:55 pm

APB doesn't really seem out of the box, Blorx. It seems like GTA online. lol. What are its distinguishing features?

Spellborn seems interesting because it says that weapons and armor do not make you invincible, but serve a more aesthetic purpose. I think this makes more sense.

Also, no woodchopping and stuff like that is always welcome.

I'm downloading the game because I'm given optimism by the fact that they've made it free to play. However, it's an MMORPG and therefore I'm increasingly skeptical.

RISE looks crap.

Neocron is apparently very buggy and uninspiring, and is said to have failed to supply the innovation they were apparently striving for.
Last edited by Renegade_Turner on Tue May 04, 2010 1:17 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: All Points Bulletin

Post by Grayswandir » Tue May 04, 2010 1:17 pm

TheBigCheese wrote:If anyone thinks that MMO's are a grindfest, play EvE for 6 months in a player-run corporation, and then we'll talk. :wink:
EvE is a horrible grindfest...and its slow...and you can't crash into planets...or other ships...and the tutorial is horrible (Although I hear that they fixed that)...but I like the idea of EvE (giant fleet battles, space trading, ship building, etc...). If I had the patience, I'd probably sit down and give it another go.

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Re: All Points Bulletin

Post by TheBigCheese » Tue May 04, 2010 2:35 pm

Grayswandir wrote:EvE is a horrible grindfest...and its slow...and you can't crash into planets...or other ships...and the tutorial is horrible (Although I hear that they fixed that)...but I like the idea of EvE (giant fleet battles, space trading, ship building, etc...). If I had the patience, I'd probably sit down and give it another go.
To get the full experience you really have to join a player corporation in 0.0 security space. Fighting for and building an empire with a group of players is amazingly fun. It's definitely not as fun to just play by yourself.

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Re: All Points Bulletin

Post by Blorx » Tue May 04, 2010 3:08 pm

Renegade_Turner wrote:APB doesn't really seem out of the box, Blorx. It seems like GTA online. lol. What are its distinguishing features?
Ren, if I could, I'd make a huge post about all the things that are great about APB. Trust me, I thought the same thing "oh hey, it's GTA Online...did we really need that? Cool...only 100 people per server...sounds lame..." but then I got into the beta and playing it has definitely wiped anything I thought of it before.
Renegade_Turner wrote:Spellborn seems interesting because it says that weapons and armor do not make you invincible, but serve a more aesthetic purpose. I think this makes more sense.
Spellborn got a horrible deal being published as a P2P MMO by Activision. Also, with all that it was, in being this immensely different thing, it didn't get the recognition it deserved and, even in its F2P days, has been known to be even more niche than Jumpgate.

Renegade_Turner wrote:RISE looks crap.
It's quite a bit different, that's for sure. Think X-Plane meets Sim City as an MMO.
Renegade_Turner wrote:Neocron is apparently very buggy and uninspiring, and is said to have failed to supply the innovation they were apparently striving for.
It's not any of those, actually. I had bought it since it went subscription free and I had Ultimate Game Cards left over to spend on it. It was a pleasant surprise...the population was a surprise too, despite being less than pleasant.

On the subject of APB:

There's been talk of buddy keys for a while. If I can get buddy keys, I'll get anyone in that wants into the beta, granted that they're an active member that actually contributes something to conversation. Why? Keys are probably limited. If your posts are usually useless, I'm not going to waste my effort doing you a favor.

If that doesn't happen, however, I'll update this with a massive post with picture references about all that you can do in APB when the NDA is dropped.

I really wish I could tell you guys now. It's not what it appears to be at first.

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Re: All Points Bulletin

Post by TheBigCheese » Tue May 04, 2010 3:21 pm

I'm all up for a buddy key if you get one. I've been watching the game for a while.

To those who care, there's 18 video podcasts released by the dev team on youtube with gameplay videos of many of the features (character customization, vehicles, APB's, etc).

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Re: All Points Bulletin

Post by underthedeep » Tue May 04, 2010 3:24 pm

if you get two count me in i will give you my puppy.

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