Ace Combat 7 - Assault Horizon

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Grayswandir
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Re: Ace Combat 7 - Assault Horizon

Post by Grayswandir » Fri Sep 10, 2010 1:07 am

Ragdollmaster wrote:What you don't really realize when watching a video/playing a game like Ace Combat is the ridiculous speed of these jets.
Just watch the replay after a mission, that'll give you a sense of speed.
Plus, heat-seeking weapons aren't infallible, they can be muddled by flares and dodged by quick air maneuvers. Laser-guided weapons are, as far as I know, non-existent in air-to-air combat. How hard do you think it is to peg a jet moving at mach 2 with a laser long enough for a missile to hit it- when you're on yet another jet moving at nearly the same speed? Even ground-based anti-air defenses, like SAMs, just use thermal and UV sensors. Laser targeting is really only used on stationary buildings and ground vehicles.
Ace Combat missiles are actually relatively dumb. There are no flares or chaff (at least that the player can use), and you can dodge the missiles easily (unless its a QAAM...which are fire and forget...), by taking a sharp turn and hitting the afterburner.
Now, yes, dogfighting isn't really that common anymore seeing as ground-air defenses are typically better than air-air in the sense that they are cheaper and constantly operating, unlike jets which have to be (rather expensively) made, fueled, deployed, etc. But there's nothing wrong with today's arsenals that would make dogfighting impossible or even all that hard.
Why get into gun range when you can blast someone from miles away with a homing missile? I mean besides the satisfaction of shredding your target with hot lead and flying through the beautiful explosion of their wrecked aircraft and listening to the little hunks of metal tinkle as they bounce off your air frame? Oh right, the cost of repairs. This is why we have AC games, because it makes it awesome, and it doesn't cost taxpayers money if you go down in a flaming ball of fire.
Typical Ace Combat storyline quality is probably on par with some of the best (whether you like Penumbra, Halo, MGS, Bioshock, or some other epic of a game, it's up there among them)
AC games have some of the oddest, and sometimes cheesiest storylines. They make sense in their universe, and they all link together (the timeline is pretty extensive), but they're still silly. Let's take Ace Combat 6, for example:
The neighboring country Estovakia (or something Russian sounding), is devastated by a meteor that breaks up in the Earth's atmosphere and it rains down on their country, destroying their economy. They decide a military government is the best way to get them back on their feet and attack the country of Emmeria...with manta-ray shaped flying aircraft carriers and advanced fighter craft. Its your job to help retake your country and win the war. While all this is going on, there's a story about a mother and her missing daughter and a rogue tank crew that wants to go and steal gold. "Go fly with the angels." Bitch.
Once again, you're basing the fact that there's a Russian accent in the trailer and a military setting to mean this is a generic modern warfare clone.
AC7 is supposedly losing its Strangereal setting, which sucks. I think it starts in Miami or some-such.
I personally haven't played Zero, 6, or any of the portable installments, but based on reviews and recommendations they're as equally varied and well-thought out as the previous installments.
Zero had some awesomely designed, "experimental" planes with doom lasers attached (why fire missiles when you could shoot LASERS?) and you could twist them in so many different directions you could fire backwards and flip the plane on its axis. Watching replays was hilarious (dogfights 100 feet above the ground...). AC6, went back to all real planes (at least in design), it also has online multiplayer, which is fun, but a little unbalanced because some of the downloadable skins for the planes make them overpowered (apparently pasting cute anime girls on your planes gives them the power of God). Also, QAAMs are completely broken, you can fire at a target you're not even aiming at and they're faster than the regular planes on full afterburner. Singleplayer is a blast though.
The military jargon is also part of the theme of AC. It's always been one of those series heavy on details and realism (to reasonable extent) The planes are, to probably within a few pixels, totally accurate in their modeling
They get full licensing for the planes, and they're highly detailed. Watching missiles and bombs regenerate on the weapon racks makes you do a double take sometimes, but hey, game mechanics, having to fly back to base repeatedly would be boring.
and their performances are equally realistic.
What?
The fact that the pilots aren't screaming obscenities like leftover grunts from Killzone and Gears of War fits in with the rest of the game's style. Just because the kiddies making games these days feel it's necessary to make the entire dialogue military code doesn't really mean that AC is another bandwagon jumper.
The Ace Combat series is a plane-nut/military-nut's wet dream, its like playing Top Gun instead of watching it. Complete with over the top drama, love interests, and banter between wingmates. If that isn't your thing, then AC probably isn't for you.

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Re: Ace Combat 7 - Assault Horizon

Post by Ragdollmaster » Fri Sep 10, 2010 11:26 am

>Ace Combat missiles are actually relatively dumb. There are no flares or chaff (at least that the player can use), and you can dodge the missiles easily (unless its a QAAM...which are fire and forget...), by taking a sharp turn and hitting the afterburner.

Yes, but I was just talking about a hypothetical real-life situation (in response to "hur jets have magical heat-seeking missiles lol')

Also, to a lesser extent, SAAMs (Semi-active Air-Air Missiles) are 100% accurate, but you need to keep the target in the reticle until impact.

>AC7 is supposedly losing its Strangereal setting, which sucks. I think it starts in Miami or some-such.

Yeah, but it's a bit of a change. Change isn't always terrible. I've liked the fictional universes and all, but it's harder to root for Yuktobaniaestoniaosea than it is for a real country. I never felt much fo an attachment to any of the AC countries.

As a response to everything else: Pretty much. Some realistic details are skipped over for playability, and who cares? If you flew in and dispensed your incredible salvo of 8 missiles and then flew back to base, it would be quite a boring game.

About story: DIdn't know that 6 was silly. The others are more or less serious, with 3 being slightly ridiculous but taking itself very seriously (it also featured crap like an armored blimp that served as a UAV deployer, and super-fast planes with lasers and plasma rockets; there was also a section where you flew in motherforking space, and it was a pretty realistic simulation of Zero-Gee flying)

>What?

Seriously. I mean, sure, a human pilot would probably pass out from all of the crazy crap that you typically do in an AC game, but it's still feasible that a jet could do it.

>The Ace Combat series is a plane-nut/military-nut's wet dream, its like playing Top Gun instead of watching it. Complete with over the top drama, love interests, and banter between wingmates. If that isn't your thing, then AC probably isn't for you.

I know. I feel like you're attacking me here while I'm supporting AC.

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Re: Ace Combat 7 - Assault Horizon

Post by Grayswandir » Fri Sep 10, 2010 6:08 pm

Ragdollmaster wrote:About story: DIdn't know that 6 was silly. The others are more or less serious, with 3 being slightly ridiculous but taking itself very seriously (it also featured crap like an armored blimp that served as a UAV deployer, and super-fast planes with lasers and plasma rockets; there was also a section where you flew in motherforking space, and it was a pretty realistic simulation of Zero-Gee flying)
All the games are so serious that they're silly. They all try to show the horrors of war (well, all the ones past AC2), and how war causes suffering, but they ham it up so much that it comes off over-done. Which isn't really a bad thing, its pretty much part of the series. It doesn't make it any less awesome, but its still ridiculous.
Ragdollmaster wrote:I feel like you're attacking me here while I'm supporting AC.
No, I support your love of the Ace Combat series. I love it too, its a blast to play and I love all the military-wank that it has. I'm making fun of your insistence on acting like a deranged fan-boy and trying to defend the series to someone that has already stated they have no interest in the game at all.

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Re: Ace Combat 7 - Assault Horizon

Post by Kestril » Sun Sep 12, 2010 11:50 am

(Yes, yes, I'm a lurker now. Lurk. Lurk.)


If there is a "standard" ace combat game to play, it would be Ace Combat:4 shattered skies.
You have no wingmen, unlike 05,06, and zero: It helps with the story.

Let me give a quick outline of the story (spoiler alert)


The enemy has a super weapon: Stonehenge This would be irrelevant, except for the fact nearly half of the first eight missions require you to duck under 2000 feet, and watch you accompanying squadron get blown out of the sky.
In this ace combat it's not "just another super weapon" It's THE super weapon.
In to 5,6, and zero, super weapons are just a fact of life, which diminishes the conception of their power. As a player, you never really feared the arkbird, or the hrimfaxi.

Another feature of 4 is the best storyline of the game. Throughout the cutscenes, you view the enemies elite squadron through the eyes of a kid. They seem friendly. Of course, there is a love interest there, but on the mission when you are forced to shoot down the ace you've come to know, well, I at least, had second thoughts about pulling the trigger.

AC04 also features the most realistic flight mechanics, and is more difficult than it's predecessors.

I don't know if ACAH will stand up to 04, but the changes namco is making generally look good. All I'm concerned about is a new control scheme, and the "press triangle not to die" plague that's been sweeping the game industry since God of War.

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Re: Ace Combat 7 - Assault Horizon

Post by Ragdollmaster » Sun Sep 12, 2010 10:22 pm

Nah, I think the addition of wingmen in AC5 made it much more emotional than 4 because you actually grew attached to your allies. In AC4, I just felt annoyed that they would occasionally steal a kill from me but otherwise remain useless.

Also, the Scinfaxi/Hrimfaxi threat was a little scary when put into context. Intercontinental burst missiles that could annihilate everything below 5,000 feet? If you happen to look down during one of these attacks and there are allies in the area (low-flying fighters or ships or something) you can physically see them burning and exploding. Arkbird was never feared since it was a constant ally (when it wasn't being sabotaged hurdur) but there were other "superweapons", of sorts, in AC5. I nearly crapped my pants on the first playthrough when, after being declared a hero by everyone and their grandmother, your squadron gets jumped by like 20 ace pilots from the 8492nd posing as allies- a sort of "behind-the-scenes" group, neither with the Yukes or Oseans but trying to wear both countries down with the war so that Belka, defeated 15 years ago by the former two, can gain power.

Speaking of emotions, or lack thereof, I hope AH doesn't turn out to be a total balls serious war game. There was always a measure of humor and lightheartedness in the previous titles- which is why it was extra serious when deep shit started going down. I could see it already- "The entire Russian air force is en route to our base? No problem, I'm finished with blowing up their naval fleet anyways. I'll just refuel and be on my way."

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Re: Ace Combat 7 - Assault Horizon

Post by Ragdollmaster » Sun Jun 05, 2011 12:30 pm

Oh hello there.


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Post by Zhukov » Mon Jun 06, 2011 4:01 am

Dear God, please tell me the camera doesn't act like that during actual gameplay.

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Re: Ace Combat 7 - Assault Horizon

Post by Ragdollmaster » Mon Jun 06, 2011 4:58 am

Optional zoom.

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Re: Ace Combat 7 - Assault Horizon

Post by Grayswandir » Mon Jun 06, 2011 6:15 am

I do like the idea behind making the combat closer (as much as I like the whole lock-on tone, SHOOT message, fire missiles, watch planes explode everywhere, it will be an interesting change) where the gun is a viable option to use, but at the same time, I'm not sure what I think of the quick time event that goes on during the gun-lock battles.

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Re: Ace Combat 7 - Assault Horizon

Post by Ragdollmaster » Mon Jun 06, 2011 12:41 pm

I have to admit that I'm also a bit apprehensive at the idea of "PRESS X TO DODGE THE MISSILE". I don't want the game engine to pull off my crazy evasive maneuvers for me- I want to do them by myself! :P

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Post by Zhukov » Mon Jun 06, 2011 2:49 pm

Hurr hurr hurr.

Y'know what? I'm going to spare you smart arse comments for now. I think that trailer speaks for itself.

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Re: Ace Combat 7 - Assault Horizon

Post by Ragdollmaster » Mon Jun 06, 2011 3:51 pm

...what exactly are you referring to? I'm sure it's abundantly clear in your own head, but you're being more than a little vague right now.

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Post by Zhukov » Mon Jun 06, 2011 4:47 pm

Uh... what?

I just meant, "Hey, here's a longer trailer of that game you're keen on and I don't have a disparaging comment about it."

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Re: Ace Combat 7 - Assault Horizon

Post by Ragdollmaster » Mon Jun 06, 2011 5:27 pm

Oh, I thought you meant it somehow referenced to something I'd said. Awkward.

Well yeah, I think it's a really good trailer. I'm glad to see that there's still the classic Ace Combat story drama, but again, slightly disappointed about the transfer to the real world, as well as the generic "RUSKIE MERCENARIES ARE EVIL" take on the bad guys. Hopefully, it will pan out better in the full game.

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Re: Ace Combat 7 - Assault Horizon

Post by Grayswandir » Mon Jun 06, 2011 7:29 pm

At least in the US dubbed versions, haven't most of the bad guys talked in vague Russian or Chinese accents?

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