Suggestions for combat AI

[schmambuman]

I was thinking about how the AI currently works, and I think it could use a little improvement. It's fine how it is, but it's a little bland. Basically, how I understand it is, when fighting, the enemy rushes right up next to you and launches a flurry of attacks. This is all fine and dandy when it's one on one, or one on two, or even three on three. However, after that, it basically becomes impossible to take on larger groups of enemies without abusing the jump kick until you have thinned their numbers.

Now, I know what you are thinking. "It's not realistic for someone to be able to take on 4 or 5 groups of enemies comfortably." I know. But it's not really realistic to be jumping 30 feet into the air and planting a two footed stomp on the back of some fool's head. Hell, it's not realistic to be a 6 foot tall ninja rabbit anyways. And my thinking is that if there was a large group of enemies, they wouldn't just rush straight at you all clumped up close enough to touch each other. They would spread out, likely surround you, etc.

Now, I'm not talking surround you as in Assassin creed "Everyone surrounds you, then takes turns doing single combat with you and you counter kill every single one" I'm talking they surround you and all beat the crap out of you. Not all at the same time, but maybe 2 at a time or something. Also, I think that the AI should start out very aggressive, almost cocky. After all, it isn't a fair fight with 4 on 1. However, after you land an awesome ninja bunny roundhouse kick to the back of one of their buddy's skulls, they get a little more cautious as they realize what you can do. Maybe they even get a little scared after you take out more of their friends, and start panicking, doing rash moves like hasty kicks and punches. I think this would make things a lot deeper, make large groups more managable without using the jump kick, and would make combat a lot more fun. As it is now, bunnies just run up right in front of you and kick you in the face, and I'm thinking that maybe instead of running straight up, they might do a feint to trick you into attacking, cool things like that.

Also, one more thing. When an AI kills or knocks someone unconcious right now, they run over to amost "confirm the kill". This is all fine and dandy when it's right next to them, but sometimes they will knock the enemy off an incredibly high cliff. Guess what they do? Instead of assuming the lifeless body flopping around and bouncing off the cliffside is dead, they leap off to go check, and die in the process. It's especially funny to geta huge pack of wolves to knock a bunny off a ledge, and watch them all leap to their deaths.

Anyways, those are my suggestions. Sorry if these have already been thought of, and does anyone have any feedback?

[Unwoundpath]

Hm, this is good, but I think they should all surround you and attack you how they do now, all at once.

[schmambuman]

Hm, this is good, but I think they should all surround you and attack you how they do now, all at once.

That's fine as is, but it makes fighting large groups of enemies almost impossible without the jump kick, and I just wish group combat had a little more depth than it does now.

[Count Roland]

that's why you try to avoid fighting large groups. and why the jump kick will eventually be able to be countered.

[Dan_Weaver]

What I'd like to see are attacks that can hit multiple opponents. Like the sweep, you go through half the group's legs just to hit the one enemy in the middle. If you could hit all the opponents and knock them over (unless someone blocks it midway), it'd make fights a whole lot easier and more fun.

Plus, I'd like to see bodies collide. If you smash a bunny with the foot cannon(?) and it flies at 30mph at another bunny, having them smash together would be such a satisfying sight.

[Unwoundpath]

Plus, I'd like to see bodies collide. If you smash a bunny with the foot cannon(?) and it flies at 30mph at another bunny, having them smash together would be such a satisfying sight.

You can do that in lugaru, but there is no leg cannon yet so just wait, and maybe you will be able to.

[FatalSylence]

I think it would be better if the AI was just optimized. I'm sure it will be, so I'm not worrying about it. Many games can handle much more AI than this game, so I'm sure it's an issue they will be addressing.

[schmambuman]

I think it would be better if the AI was just optimized. I'm sure it will be, so I'm not worrying about it. Many games can handle much more AI than this game, so I'm sure it's an issue they will be addressing.

That too. I'd love to have massive battles with like 50 bunnies on one side, and 30 wolves on the other. But the AI seems, at least to me, too simple for such an amazing game. I think they work as is, but could be improved much more, if time allows.

[Jacktheawesome]

Hm, this is good, but I think they should all surround you and attack you how they do now, all at once.

I think he does have a point though. I mean it would be impossible to do effective roundhouse kicks with five of your buddies around you, touching you. You would kick one of your friends in the face. kicks take space. And I really do like the "cocky at the beginning, scared in the end" idea.

What I'd like to see are attacks that can hit multiple opponents. Like the sweep, you go through half the group's legs just to hit the one enemy in the middle. If you could hit all the opponents and knock them over (unless someone blocks it midway), it'd make fights a whole lot easier and more fun.

How...would that even be possible though? It's hard enough to take down one person's legs, not to mention three or more. It's not just the loss of momentum, the body of the person you just swept would get in the way.

[Korban3]

If we add emotion states, then I want one where he gets real pissed. So after he knocks you out/down, he comes over and stomps on your body.

[brigadesoft]

Hm.


I like suggestions about the enemies' cockiness/fear, etc. That's good.

A sweep or roundhouse hitting multiple opponents? Ridiculous. When ragdoll collisions are in, you'll get essentially what you're asking for, and it will actually make sense.

Calls to make the game a lot easier? I think the fun of Lugaru was how refreshing it was to be challenged in an uneven fight. The enemy had the same attacks, the same reversals, the same health. That's CRUCIAL.

Too many 3rd person action games and fighting games and hack-n-slash games are all about this one super-god character versus thousands of inept goblins with no legs and brittle bones.

When you fight two rabbits simultaneously in Lugaru, you feel like you just beat two whole people. Alone.

If you can beat three or more, you feel like a veritable badass, and with good reason! You are!


It's a really unique feeling, and a large part of the allure of Lugaru and Overgrowth. If the game were easier, badass "Jackie Chan" moments would happen constantly, and lose their value. If that were the case, I wouldn't remember (in vivid detail!) the time I beat challenge level six without being hit or using the rabbit kick. It would just be something that always happened. But as difficult as Lugaru is, it was an accomplishment for me. I like that. I'd like Overgrowth to give me more of that, please.


Sorry for the formatting. I've been awake for far too long.

[Jacktheawesome]

Hm.


I like suggestions about the enemies' cockiness/fear, etc. That's good.

A sweep or roundhouse hitting multiple opponents? Ridiculous. When ragdoll collisions are in, you'll get essentially what you're asking for, and it will actually make sense.

Calls to make the game a lot easier? I think the fun of Lugaru was how refreshing it was to be challenged in an uneven fight. The enemy had the same attacks, the same reversals, the same health. That's CRUCIAL.

Too many 3rd person action games and fighting games and hack-n-slash games are all about this one super-god character versus thousands of inept goblins with no legs and brittle bones.

When you fight two rabbits simultaneously in Lugaru, you feel like you just beat two whole people. Alone.

If you can beat three or more, you feel like a veritable badass, and with good reason! You are!


It's a really unique feeling, and a large part of the allure of Lugaru and Overgrowth. If the game were easier, badass "Jackie Chan" moments would happen constantly, and lose their value. If that were the case, I wouldn't remember (in vivid detail!) the time I beat challenge level six without being hit or using the rabbit kick. It would just be something that always happened. But as difficult as Lugaru is, it was an accomplishment for me. I like that. I'd like Overgrowth to give me more of that, please.


Sorry for the formatting. I've been awake for far too long.

Exactly. Couldn't agree more. The thing that made Lugaru special, and the thing the devs must (and I think will) preserve is the idea that if you are going unarmed against an unarmed opponent, the only advantage is skill. If you beat a knife wielding enemy with a knife, you didn't win because your knife was leveled higher than his was, you beat him because you practiced with it. If you are fighting 2 people, there are exactly 2-1 odds against you. That, and intuitive, fluid controls, is what makes these games special.

[adwuga]

Exactly. Couldn't agree more. The thing that made Lugaru special, and the thing the devs must (and I think will) preserve is the idea that if you are going unarmed against an unarmed opponent, the only advantage is skill. If you beat a knife wielding enemy with a knife, you didn't win because your knife was leveled higher than his was, you beat him because you practiced with it. If you are fighting 2 people, there are exactly 2-1 odds against you. That, and intuitive, fluid controls, is what makes these games special.

well, overgrowth has a lot of shiny and awesome features (level editor, active ragdolls, awesome blood, etc.) those are some pretty special things, but as far as gameplay goes I agree with you %(99 + cos(0))

[Jacktheawesome]

That's about as much as I would expect anyone to agree with me.

[schmambuman]

Alright, I get what you guys are saying. It's not like I want it to be too easy though, I was mainly talking about how the AI works right now. That is, they all run at you WHILE touching each other. Then as soon as they get within range, throw an attack out. I just thought it was a little simple.

I guess I can live with not being able to take on more than 4 people. That's what I didn't like about Assassin's creed. You could take on hundreds of enemies, if the game ever had hundreds of enemies in a fight (not sure if it did, but definitely around 50 or so) and not even break a sweat, because things like the counter were so loose in their timing (you could counter a full second before the enemy's attack hit you, and still kill him) and once you landed a counter, all you had to do was just keep hitting the attack button and insta-killing everyone. That is not what I want.

I'm sure they are going to work on the AI eventually anyway, so we'll see where Wolfire chooses to take it.