Features

[LugaruFan]

I was playing Overgrowth, and I had realised with all the other indie games, Overgrowths graphics seem somewhat outdated. Now don't jump straight to replying ''The game isn't finished!'' Because I already know that. But in future development will Overgrowth feature anything special, such as HD textures or tesselation, lens flares etc. I love this game and think the technology behind it is amazing.

[Endoperez]

Which indie games are you comparing Overgrowth to?

[LugaruFan]

Games like Primal Carnage, Contagion(Well, this was made on Source.) Depth, well, sort of depth. Not all of them, do you see where I'm coming from?

I also understand it is hard for the devs as they are a small team, this isn't a complaint, I'd be happy even if the game was released with these graphics. It is just a question.

[Endoperez]

Primal Carnage team (http://www.primalcarnage.com/website/team)
23 people.

Primal Carnage engine: Unreal 3.

"AshtonAndersen (Jan. 31, 2010) wrote:
This game was never a MOD. It's been in development for three- four months now being built from the ground up on the Unigine game engine. It's going to be a stand-alone Indie commercial title."

Primal Carnage has been in development since about September or October 2010.
Overgrowth development started two years before that, Sept. 2008.

That's why.


Contagion:

Team size: about 7
(there's no info I could find, but a facebook pic shows 7 of them in GDC last March).

People they want to hire to do more graphics:
3D Character Artist
3D Environmental Artist
Texture Artist
Level Designer
Animator
Concept Artist

Contagion is a better comparison, but I don't know how many artists they have had working on it and for how long, so I've got no idea how much more graphical manpower they have.

[LugaruFan]

I don't mean it like this, okay to put it in basic, will Overgrowths graphics be improved overtime? I understand some parts of it will, like dog and cat model, etc. but overall graphics. How big is Wolfires team? Isn't David the only coder?

Also, Overgrowths graphics development didn't really kick off until 09, I like the current graphics but it seems like other indie games are passing them, but hey its mainly gameplay that attracts gamers.

[michl21999]

Really? Most indie games does not look half this good. OG graphics are simply gorgeus. But that may be just me because im strange who knows.

[LugaruFan]

No, I agree with you Overgrowth is great, I just hope that soon things like bloom, HDR, or Tesselation. Actually, is tesselation DX only? Overgrowth is OpenGL.

[Causeless]

No, I agree with you Overgrowth is great, I just hope that soon things like bloom, HDR, or Tesselation. Actually, is tesselation DX only? Overgrowth is OpenGL.

I believe OpenGL has supported tesselation for longer than DirectX. It's mostly because DirectX focuses on advertising features, while OpenGL gets puts them in and gets it over and done with.

Even so, many of these effects can be faked without it already being supported.

I have no real idea about how you could think OG's graphics are outdated... they are great! Most challenge levels aren't due to them being basic gameplay tests, but the actual levels with effort put into visuals look great. OG seems to already have the tech needed behind it, at least. It's got dynamic shadows, ambient occlusion, lens flare (though one that emulates the human eye more than a camera), it's even got small features like letting fur and cloth look more realistic by letting light bleed through at the edges.

I'm not sure if HDR is implemented yet, though.

[LugaruFan]

Ehhhh.... Is no one reading what I'm writing? I said they feel outdated, I didn't say that they weren't good, they're greeeeaaaaat! Especially the landscape, I love that. Overgrowth doesn't have ambient occlusion but it would be awesome if it did. Basically I think Overgrowth would look nicer with better post effects and textures.

Also a skybox sort of like this would be fantastic!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1knBtRklcKE&feature=plcp

[Endoperez]

A proper response would need research, and take some effort. I can't take your post seriously, so I'm not going to do that.

I'll be frank. Your posts read as if you're throwing around terms you don't clearly understand. Also, some of the terms are usually associated with big, commercial engines and studios, while others are so trivial that they're meaningless, and HD textures can mean anything.

You might see tesselation in an indie game using a commercial engine with tesselation, but not otherwise I think. Lens flares and bloom, two features you asked for, are both easy to do and, more importantly, already in (just look towards the sun in-game...). Bloom isn't enabled on default maps though. Oh, and Ambient Occlusion is in. This was told to you in this thread before you claimed it isn't.

A HD texture pack for Thief 1 is different from HD textures to MineCraft, and that's different from HD texture pack to Skyrim. What's "good enough" for you? And which indie games are known for having uncommonly high-resolution textures?


You're saying all of these things that don't quite make sense or fit together, and claiming indie games in general are now graphically on the level of AAA games from a few years ago, at the same time you show you haven't bothered searching for any info on the Wolfire blog.

[Noz]

Overgrowth doesn't have ambient occlusion but it would be awesome if it did.

Wait. Yes it does...

[LugaruFan]

A proper response would need research, and take some effort. I can't take your post seriously, so I'm not going to do that.

I'll be frank. Your posts read as if you're throwing around terms you don't clearly understand. Also, some of the terms are usually associated with big, commercial engines and studios, while others are so trivial that they're meaningless, and HD textures can mean anything.

You might see tesselation in an indie game using a commercial engine with tesselation, but not otherwise I think. Lens flares and bloom, two features you asked for, are both easy to do and, more importantly, already in (just look towards the sun in-game...). Bloom isn't enabled on default maps though. Oh, and Ambient Occlusion is in. This was told to you in this thread before you claimed it isn't.

A HD texture pack for Thief 1 is different from HD textures to MineCraft, and that's different from HD texture pack to Skyrim. What's "good enough" for you? And which indie games are known for having uncommonly high-resolution textures?


You're saying all of these things that don't quite make sense or fit together, and claiming indie games in general are now graphically on the level of AAA games from a few years ago, at the same time you show you haven't bothered searching for any info on the Wolfire blog.

I do understand that Overgrowth has done exceptionally well for itself, especially as it is being created on the devs own engine, and other indie games use UDK most of the time, but what I'm saying is will the graphics get even a bit better over time? Thats all I want to know, I love the graphics now, I think they're awesome... But will they be improved?

Also my Overgrowth doesn't have Ambient Occlusion, are you sure it has it?

[LugaruFan]

Another thing, I know I'm being confusing. I'm trying to say the same things in other ways, but I can't seem to say it the right way

[Jaz]

Overgrowth has ambient occlusion. Your Overgrowth most certainly does too. You need to have a DX10 card though I believe.

I'm pretty sure they mentioned in one of the update vids that they've implemented some tessellation code just for animal fur. Don't quote me on that though. :/

I'm pretty certain bloom's already in. And HDR isn't a simple matter of "Hey, we have HDR! We're awesome!". HDR is a complex shader.

In fact, for an example of how complex HDR is, try using a photo editing program, get a simple HDR plugin and try out different settings. You will most certainly find that different settings result in entirely different results. Basic HDR isn't actually anything that any game should ever use. Basic HDR means balancing out all light-sources to equality. This is helpful for photo editing or old-fashioned images(And I suppose maybe dream-like scenes). But in an action game like Overgrowth, it would look totally out of place.
Advanced HDR is a layered shader process which is what you see in modern games. I'm not entirely sure how it works, but I think it's a mixture of Basic HDR and an extra overlay process which decides where light sources need to be balanced and where they need to be... unbalanced.

[LugaruFan]

Overgrowth has ambient occlusion. Your Overgrowth most certainly does too. You need to have a DX10 card though I believe.

I'm pretty sure they mentioned in one of the update vids that they've implemented some tessellation code just for animal fur. Don't quote me on that though. :/

I'm pretty certain bloom's already in. And HDR isn't a simple matter of "Hey, we have HDR! We're awesome!". HDR is a complex shader.

In fact, for an example of how complex HDR is, try using a photo editing program, get a simple HDR plugin and try out different settings. You will most certainly find that different settings result in entirely different results. Basic HDR isn't actually anything that any game should ever use. Basic HDR means balancing out all light-sources to equality. This is helpful for photo editing or old-fashioned images(And I suppose maybe dream-like scenes). But in an action game like Overgrowth, it would look totally out of place.
Advanced HDR is a layered shader process which is what you see in modern games. I'm not entirely sure how it works, but I think it's a mixture of Basic HDR and an extra overlay process which decides where light sources need to be balanced and where they need to be... unbalanced.

Yeah, they added a few 3D rocks to add realism, and added animal fur, I have that. But I have a DX11 card and I don't see AO? I have been playing Overgrowth alot lately, and I do love the graphics, I think they're fantastic, but I would love to see some more shaders, like I posted earlier the cloud shader. I remember HDR in Oblivion and you weren't able to have AA checked at the same time.