Unarmed vs Armed combat?

[[insertusernamehere]]

When the dodge feature was released, I was really excited because it meant you could avoid armed attacks even when unarmed. It also looked really cool and was a nice addition to mix things up besides blocking.

In unarmed vs armed combat, I've noticed that the only way to disarm an opponent is to kill them. Personally, I would enjoy some kind of system in which players could dodge and then quickly press the grab key (right mouse) to grab the opponents weapon, or some other kind of clever disarming system.

Discussion? What is the best way to make this kind of fighting fun?

[DI0BL0]

I don't know about your disarm idea. Just seems a bit out of this games style. But I would like to see you be able too just kick someone really hard and make them drop there weapon. Also there is a way to disarm: get them in a choke hold then they drop there weapon.

[akazi]

Lugaru had weapon disarms.

[zzwerty]

maybe. It would have to be more difficult than Lugaru's disarms though. Some of those fights may as well have been games of pass the parcel.

[droog]

maybe. It would have to be more difficult than Lugaru's disarms though. Some of those fights may as well have been games of pass the parcel.

Exactly. Disarms in Lugaru were too easy, but I also want a similar system in Overgrowth.

[RagdollZombie]

I think weapon disarms would be essential, but like the previous two comments it shouldn't be as easy as Lugaru's. It should be a bit of a challenge to disarm an armed opponent while you are unarmed. Not sure how they will implement it but I'm sure they'll find a way

[Endoperez]

One simple fix for the endless passing-over of the weapon would be this: the disarmed weapon falls to the ground.

[Advance123]

Yes. I think it would add some gameplay bonuses and realism if whenever you throw an enemy as a counter there's a chance that they drop the weapon. I don't imagine it would be too difficult to implement and I can't think of any better ways.

EDIT: Just remembered that most attacks someone will do with a weapon is with the weapon itself... But, there are still some counterable attacks such as the low kick and sometimes, with a smaller weapon, a jab.

[Constance]

Maybe, you have to dodge the weapon attack and then strike the enemy to make him drop his weapon?

[JackEagles17]

It would need to be a dodge grab thing. To be honest the whole combat system needs to be tweeked on this, and does anyone else think it all needs to be slowed down and the slo-mo needs to be sped up?

[Endoperez]

It would need to be a dodge grab thing. To be honest the whole combat system needs to be tweeked on this, and does anyone else think it all needs to be slowed down and the slo-mo needs to be sped up?

The slow-mo probably won't be a part of the final game. Well, at least the slow-motion toggle that you can enable yourself. The slow-motion that is enabled when an enemy dies will probably stay, and the speed of that can be tweaked.

And yes, the combat needs a lot of tweaking - the good news is, the Arena mode is all about an environment that makes it easy to test and tweak the combat system.

[Ylvali]

Regarding unarmed vs armed combat, the way you currently dodge weapons by jumping backwards is the total opposite of what you should do in a real fight. In a real fight, apart from the fact that it is almost impossible to win unarmed against an equally skilled armed opponent, there are three things you'd want to achieve. First get inside your opponents effective range, the closer the better, as the weapon is most effective close to maximum range and least effective when at elbow/wrestling distance. Second thing is to control the arm weilding the weapon, only way to effectively block a weapon unarmed is to be close enough to block the arm holding it. Third thing is to incapacitate the opponent before he can regain his effective spacing, at which point you are fucked. Jumping backwards is sometimes necessary of course, when there is no other option, but it is also doing your enemy's work for him since more spacing is better for the armed fighter and worse for the unarmed.

I like the idea of believable fighting, so I'd like to see a way to deal with armed opponents by getting close and establishing control over the swordarm, disarms as in taking the weapon from your opponents hand are too gimmicky for me.

[Endoperez]

Regarding unarmed vs armed combat, the way you currently dodge weapons by jumping backwards is the total opposite of what you should do in a real fight. In a real fight, apart from the fact that it is almost impossible to win unarmed against an equally skilled armed opponent, there are three things you'd want to achieve. First get inside your opponents effective range, the closer the better, as the weapon is most effective close to maximum range and least effective when at elbow/wrestling distance. Second thing is to control the arm weilding the weapon, only way to effectively block a weapon unarmed is to be close enough to block the arm holding it. Third thing is to incapacitate the opponent before he can regain his effective spacing, at which point you are fucked. Jumping backwards is sometimes necessary of course, when there is no other option, but it is also doing your enemy's work for him since more spacing is better for the armed fighter and worse for the unarmed.

I like the idea of believable fighting, so I'd like to see a way to deal with armed opponents by getting close and establishing control over the swordarm, disarms as in taking the weapon from your opponents hand are too gimmicky for me.

While that's realistic, it might not work that way for cinematic fights.

[EPR89]

Regarding unarmed vs armed combat, the way you currently dodge weapons by jumping backwards is the total opposite of what you should do in a real fight. In a real fight, apart from the fact that it is almost impossible to win unarmed against an equally skilled armed opponent, there are three things you'd want to achieve. First get inside your opponents effective range, the closer the better, as the weapon is most effective close to maximum range and least effective when at elbow/wrestling distance. Second thing is to control the arm weilding the weapon, only way to effectively block a weapon unarmed is to be close enough to block the arm holding it. Third thing is to incapacitate the opponent before he can regain his effective spacing, at which point you are fucked. Jumping backwards is sometimes necessary of course, when there is no other option, but it is also doing your enemy's work for him since more spacing is better for the armed fighter and worse for the unarmed.

I like the idea of believable fighting, so I'd like to see a way to deal with armed opponents by getting close and establishing control over the swordarm, disarms as in taking the weapon from your opponents hand are too gimmicky for me.

While that's realistic, it might not work that way for cinematic fights.

Maybe there could be a way to implement limited grappling. Something like clinching and strikes, knees and escapes in that position.
The biggest problem in my opinion would be to make it difficult enough to enter that position so that it cannot be spammed without making it feel contrived, like a trivial minigame.

[Ylvali]

Why not simply allow active blocks to work against weapons when close enough, like really close? And have them animated as checking the swordarm with your left arm? At that range blows and kicks would be animated as elbows and knees I suppose, maybe they already are? It was a while since I played the game now.

In any case, I don't think a special "mode" or anything would be required, just blend it into the fighting system based on spacing. I think it could look cool and cinematic enough graphically too, at least for people interested in the realities of full contact fighting.

Knifes are quite different of course, unarmed against knifes you'd want to stay out of the knifes range and use kicks or something I think, unless you can move in to establish a lock on the arm holding the arm and break the wrist or pop the shoulder or something. In some ways knifes are scarier than other weapons, as you can't reduce their effect by closing distance. But I haven't actually sparred enough unarmed against knifes to know, most of my knife sparring is knife versus knife (no, not real knifes ), in which case it's all about terror balance and getting the first lethal cut in, usually within 30 seconds. Knifes are fucking scary. Maybe someone else has sparred unarmed versus knifes and can give a better opinion?

What worries me about disarms, apart from their implausibility, is the risk of creating either the problem Lugaru has, where the weapon is wrestled back and forth which is plain ridiculous, or another problem where only the human player can "break" the system and learn to disarm successfully every time, while the AI will effectively not use it. So it creates a "magic trick" that is in practice available only to the human player. Not a good thing.

A way to create a sort of disarm would be if there is limb damage and the possibility to inapacitate individual limbs, where causing enough damage to the swordarm could involve a risk to drop the weapon. After which any fighter could try to pick it up first.