Asthetic issues

[Duff_Duffington]

I noticed the height of the rat has some issues in a couple areas:

[Dammasta]

Keep in mind that this is an Alpha, the strangle animations for all the small animals against bigger ones look strange. Though, I don't know how Wolfire is going to make a smaller character strangling a larger character look good. When a rabbit strangles a wolf it just looks like he's hugging the wolf's chest... and then the wolf passes out

[Korban3]

IK. It's possible to just drag the entire larger's body down. The taller enemy would just be leaning back more as they are choked.

[EPR89]

IK. It's possible to just drag the entire larger's body down. The taller enemy would just be leaning back more as they are choked.

This is probably going to be really nit-picky, but here goes:

No.

If you have a size difference like the one between rabbits and rats, the victim would have to lean so far back that his chin would end up on his chest. You cannot choke someone like that. If you somehow managed to get your arm underneath his chin before locking in the choke like that, the result would be a neck crank and not a choke. And you'd actually stop the neck crank from working properly with your own arm. And there would be a lot of pressure on that arm.
In order to pull a rear-naked choke on a taller opponent you need to lower them and bring your hips close. During the choke the hips thrust forward while you pull the choke tight. People usually secure the position by performing a body lock with their legs. And the whole thing generally ends on the ground with the opponent either falling back or forward, with the guy still holding onto the choke on his back.

Here's how the standing position looks like with just the hooks in instead of a body triangle.
(Ronda Rouseyy vs Liz Carmouche (on the back))


It's much less secure that way. Notice that Liz didn't actually manage to get under the chin. There is no choke here, just a potential sideways neck crank. Moments later, Ronda managed to shake her off to the side.

Here's how the body lock position looks like. (Interestingly, from the same event as the fight above.)
(Uriah Faber (on the back) vs Ivan Menjivar)

How he got into it was pretty badass.

I hope you can see it because for me it's not showing up properly.

Here's a more traditional entry by him (this time with one hook, instead of a body triangle).


The point is, as a smaller guy, you need to somehow lower your opponent and the get in close. If you want to stay standing, you'd need to put your opponent on his knees or somehow sit him down. If he keeps standing, you need to pull something similar to Uriah Faber and hope that your opponent's lights go out before he can walk you into something.
If there is distance between your hips, you'll have a really hard time choking the guy. The neck crank can work, but you hinder yourself with that arm. And it's obviously much more dangerous for the opponent. Neck cranks don't cause unconsciousness. They nasty snapping sounds, usually followed by death.

[Endoperez]

So maybe rats can't choke as easily as the others. Better at stealth, worse at stealth takedowns? Strange disconnect there.

What if they start by kicking the tall guy's knees from behind, kicking themselves up to grab his neck at the same time, thus making him fall to his knees as his legs buckle out and there's a stealth-rat hanging on his back. Once he's on his knees, the choke works.

The difference would be that the rat wouldn't be able to force the "hostage" to move around, he'd have to stay in place.

Thoughts?

[EPR89]

I think this would be the absolute best solution.
No idea why I didn't think of that myself. It's so obvious. Plus, that kick/step to the back of the knee is totally badass. One of my Muay Thai coaches used to do this when he caught people's kicks. He basically walked past them and just placed his foot in there. No chance to stay on your feet. That guy was awesome at controlling people's posture. Sweeped and tripped guys from the clinch or with lowkicks all the time. I wish I was still training at that gym.
Sorry for that. Just got a bit nostalgic.

[Duff_Duffington]

I'm well aware that this is still an alpha. I brought this up not as a complaint, but to shine light on something that's clearly(because you can tell this is a labor of love) something Wolfire would want to correct before the final release.

I think a separate take down animation would be a great idea for the rat. I know, at the moment, all the characters are just skins on the same wireframe. This explains the rat's reach to the ledge as well. And while playing around you can see that Wolfire will eventually get around to individualizing each species (apparent because of jump heights & such). I'm sure things like this will be addressed. I just wanted to make sure the devs were aware.

[rodeje25]

it would be so awsome to have the rat jump like EPR posted on the enemy the only thing would be that you cannot drag away enemy's until they are dead.
i just though david could make a cooler execution animation for whn you are holding a knife or sword.

[PetzI]

Honestly, the neck grab looks awful even when it's rabbit-on-rabbit. There's just too much clipping for you to stare at.

I'd love to see rats jump on their larger enemies' backs!