Unofficial, alpha 17 weekly build

[Johannes]

New cursor. Interesting, though personally I liked the simplicity of the previous one. This one draws too much attention and is bigger.

Cursors and such are only temporary right now-- from what I've heard, they're gonna get some awesome pixel artist to do them for the real thing.

Sick

FAQ causes page to load in OG, with no way to close it. Best have it open the URL in default browser outside of OG.

Just click the 'FAQ' button again to close for now.

Durr, stupid me ^^; . nice.

The 'List' console command does not list anything anymore!

The console has totally changed-- everything you type into the console is now interpreted as Javascript. Certain things within the engine have been exposed to Javascript and you can list them by typing "Console.help()".

Ah cool.... but if I type in Console.help() it just tells me Unknown command:

[Phillip]

Tool/Mode Selection
- None of the number shortcuts listed work, except 8 and 9.

Hmm, they all work for me. They just don't change the editor palette display yet. But if you try editing with them, I think you will see they do change the tool .

When translating object along normal/normal plane the object stays under the cursor (correct behavior) however when holding control for snapping the object moves much less distance for the distance the mouse moves (bad behavior). Snapping should not affect the overall range of distance

Interesting. There is a bit of a lag that can accumulate, but for me it's only ever a very small amount, especially for the usual usage of short, quick translations when snapping. I didn't think it would be a problem for normal usage. Still might be worth polishing.

Also axis/plane scaling in normal direction does not work with group as it does with single objects.

This is intentional. Non-uniform scaling of groups requires skewing. This probably won't be supported.

[Renegade_Turner]

I find, when I keep trying to run into the front door of John's house, I'm propelled at random in different directions. One time I was trying stubbornly to walk into the front door and the surrounding walls of the house, and suddenly was propelled about 200 metres into the air. In one similar situation I was propelled 200 metres into the ground. As in I went through the floor.

[Johannes]

Tool/Mode Selection
- None of the number shortcuts listed work, except 8 and 9.

Hmm, they all work for me. They just don't change the editor palette display yet. But if you try editing with them, I think you will see they do change the tool .

Ah, good =)

When translating object along normal/normal plane the object stays under the cursor (correct behavior) however when holding control for snapping the object moves much less distance for the distance the mouse moves (bad behavior). Snapping should not affect the overall range of distance

Interesting. There is a bit of a lag that can accumulate, but for me it's only ever a very small amount, especially for the usual usage of short, quick translations when snapping. I didn't think it would be a problem for normal usage. Still might be worth polishing.

Yeah, you're right, it's not a big issue, but I'm finicky about stuff like that

Another thing that happens sometimes is that somehow the moving the mouse causes the cube to try to move (while snapping) into infinity (or very far away) even when I move the mouse only a little. I'm unable to recreate it on demand, but once i do i'll try to video capture it. when it does happen it only seems to happen for the face that is facing the 'camera'.

Tool/Mode Selection
- None of the number shortcuts listed work, except 8 and 9.

Hmm, they all work for me. They just don't change the editor palette display yet. But if you try editing with them, I think you will see they do change the tool .

Ah, good. They do. I'm so much geared towards a graphical reaffirmation that 'something changed' that I didn't think anything had

Also axis/plane scaling in normal direction does not work with group as it does with single objects.

This is intentional. Non-uniform scaling of groups requires skewing. This probably won't be supported.

I'm a bit confused... wouldn't it just require translating each object while scaling them so their relative distances remain correct?
The mechanics I imagine for group non-uniform scaling I can create if I make a 3D model containing all the shapes I have in the group, then loading that as one object and then free transform it. that behavior is what I would think one could do with groups. No skewing necessary.

[Johannes]

I find, when I keep trying to run into the front door of John's house, I'm propelled at random in different directions. One time I was trying stubbornly to walk into the front door and the surrounding walls of the house, and suddenly was propelled about 200 metres into the air. In one similar situation I was propelled 200 metres into the ground. As in I went through the floor.

Yup, the physics are still buggy. The physics solver sometimes likes to impart far more force on rabbot (even the camera sometimes XD) than it should. This tends to happen when you bump into objects that are intersecting.
For example: spawn a round rock, right click it while holding alt (option), duplicating it in place. Do this a few times. now jump on it. Instant sonic-style bumper! =D

[ajs]

The 'List' console command does not list anything anymore!

The console has totally changed-- everything you type into the console is now interpreted as Javascript. Certain things within the engine have been exposed to Javascript and you can list them by typing "Console.help()".

Ah cool.... but if I type in Console.help() it just tells me Unknown command:

You're right-- it seems that the released alpha isn't an exact copy of the latest SVN, the console.html included with the alpha is an older revision. I've attached a zip containing a copy of the latest console.html to this post-- just unzip and put it in "Data/UI/console" and run the alpha.

[Johannes]

"jo-shadow":"The 'List' console command does not list anything anymore!"

The console has totally changed-- everything you type into the console is now interpreted as Javascript. Certain things within the engine have been exposed to Javascript and you can list them by typing "Console.help()".

Ah cool.... but if I type in Console.help() it just tells me Unknown command:

You're right-- it seems that the released alpha isn't an exact copy of the latest SVN, the console.html included with the alpha is an older revision. I've attached a zip containing a copy of the latest console.html to this post-- just unzip and put it in "Data/UI/console" and run the alpha.

Oh niiiice.... This warrants experimentation =D

[ajs]

Yup, here are the currently-working commands:

Code: Select all

	Graphics.resize(width, height)
	Engine.loadLevel(filename)
	Controller.bindKey(target, keyName)
	Camera.setFOV(value)
	Camera.setPosition(x, y, z)
	Camera.move(x, y, z)
	Camera.allowCollision(bool)

The console prompt is just like the one you would get using Firebug with Firefox-- meaning that everything you type is interpreted as Javascript.

Knowing this, you could get a little creative with your console commands; for example, to smoothly zoom the FOV from 0 to 100 over 10 seconds:

Code: Select all

var x = 0; setInterval("if(x < 100) Camera.setFOV(x++);", 100);

[Jeff]

Thanks ajs!!

[Phillip]

I'm a bit confused... wouldn't it just require translating each object while scaling them so their relative distances remain correct?
The mechanics I imagine for group non-uniform scaling I can create if I make a 3D model containing all the shapes I have in the group, then loading that as one object and then free transform it. that behavior is what I would think one could do with groups. No skewing necessary.

That's a good point. If we turn a group into a new 3D model, then we can do all the regular transformations without a problem. However, it becomes tricky if we want to ungroup after scaling (or to manipulate subgroups after scaling). Non-uniform scaling can make the bounding boxes of subgroups distorted. This is because when a group is made out of arbitrarily rotated boxes, group scaling can stretch the boxes in directions that don't coincide with their axes. Distorted boxes are hard to deal with for a bunch of reasons. Not only would they be strange to work with from a user's perspective, but they would require transformations that are not easily supported in our code.

One way around dealing with distorted boxes would be to recalculate axis-aligned bounding boxes whenever a group is non-uniformly scaled, or perhaps we could maintain axis-aligned boxes for all objects at all times. I think this would be non-ideal from a user's perspective (though there are a bunch of ways we could address this), it would take some effort to code (mainly because we'd still have to update the engine to handle model distortions), and it would add a bit to processing time. Since the gains would be rather small (how often will people really want to distort their carefully put together set piece groups?), non-uniform group scaling is a low priority right now. Still, I'll keep it in the back of my head as something to potentially come back to.

[BunnyWithStick]

bit offtopic but whats the point in getting a mac if not all games work on it?

That's a bit like saying "bit offtopic but whats the point in getting windows if not all games work on it?" actually. Case in point: SOS, GLFighters(technically not OSX compatible) and a couple of other mac only stuff.

"Not ALL games" is being a bit unrealistic. Besides, Tremulous, Urban Terror and a crapload of other good games that people might actually want to play all run just fine. Except Gmod and stuff, but Valve was apparently being an ass at the time of suggesting a port of the Source engine to mac for a ridiculous sum of money from Apple.

[Johannes]

I'm a bit confused... wouldn't it just require translating each object while scaling them so their relative distances remain correct?
The mechanics I imagine for group non-uniform scaling I can create if I make a 3D model containing all the shapes I have in the group, then loading that as one object and then free transform it. that behavior is what I would think one could do with groups. No skewing necessary.

That's a good point. If we turn a group into a new 3D model, then we can do all the regular transformations without a problem. However, it becomes tricky if we want to ungroup after scaling (or to manipulate subgroups after scaling). Non-uniform scaling can make the bounding boxes of subgroups distorted. This is because when a group is made out of arbitrarily rotated boxes, group scaling can stretch the boxes in directions that don't coincide with their axes. Distorted boxes are hard to deal with for a bunch of reasons. Not only would they be strange to work with from a user's perspective, but they would require transformations that are not easily supported in our code.

One way around dealing with distorted boxes would be to recalculate axis-aligned bounding boxes whenever a group is non-uniformly scaled, or perhaps we could maintain axis-aligned boxes for all objects at all times. I think this would be non-ideal from a user's perspective (though there are a bunch of ways we could address this), it would take some effort to code (mainly because we'd still have to update the engine to handle model distortions), and it would add a bit to processing time. Since the gains would be rather small (how often will people really want to distort their carefully put together set piece groups?), non-uniform group scaling is a low priority right now. Still, I'll keep it in the back of my head as something to potentially come back to.

Ah, you are of-course right yet again. I had not thought of the case where objects in a group would not be aligned with the other ones. Skewing would indeed occur. Given that I am very much happy with how it is right now =)

[Johannes]

Yup, here are the currently-working commands:

Code: Select all

	Graphics.resize(width, height)
	Engine.loadLevel(filename)
	Controller.bindKey(target, keyName)
	Camera.setFOV(value)
	Camera.setPosition(x, y, z)
	Camera.move(x, y, z)
	Camera.allowCollision(bool)

The console prompt is just like the one you would get using Firebug with Firefox-- meaning that everything you type is interpreted as Javascript.

Knowing this, you could get a little creative with your console commands; for example, to smoothly zoom the FOV from 0 to 100 over 10 seconds:

Code: Select all

var x = 0; setInterval("if(x < 100) Camera.setFOV(x++);", 100);

Now -that- is sexy. If i'm not mistaken this could be used to create camera pans.

[Nimai]

Firstly, yes, getting a Mac is worth it, games aren't everything unless you're 25 and still in your mother's basement...

Secondly, I get this error message everytime I attempt to load anything other than "Test map 1". (I.E. Niami's map)

Error message.

you have never successfully spelled my name correctly

[tomascokis]

lol