[a207 Discussion] Stealth AI

[Constance]

I'm not sure if it's just because I'm just really used to the extreme difficulty before a207, but I feel that sneaking around is now way too easy.

I like the addition of having to hide corpses, and the AI after they find corpses seems to be perfect (it's nearly impossible to take down enemies after they find corpses).

But after you hide corpses in spots where AI will never go, you can simply run around the patrols without them hearing you.
Maybe their hearing range should be just like before, except a little toned down, and sneak crouching should only be heard when really close up. An idea that could be good for stealth is that enemies will follow drips of blood, so bodies after a fight or lethal takedown will be hard to conceal.

Thoughts? Ideas?

EDIT: Another idea I had was that enemies look up after finding a dead body.

[bayc]

They should maybe just constantly look around more when pathing.
Another idea that might make them OP if it is not done correctly is that they know their friend's paths, and if they aren't there, then they path around like if they find a body.

[Peruraptor]

They should maybe just constantly look around more when pathing.
Another idea that might make them OP if it is not done correctly is that they know their friend's paths, and if they aren't there, then they path around like if they find a body.

Which, while realistic, entirely defeats the purpose of hiding the body.

[bayc]

They should maybe just constantly look around more when pathing.
Another idea that might make them OP if it is not done correctly is that they know their friend's paths, and if they aren't there, then they path around like if they find a body.

Which, while realistic, entirely defeats the purpose of hiding the body.

I mean just with the head, not running around. Sorry.

[lesley64]

Maybe their hearing range should be just like before, except a little toned down, and sneak crouching should only be heard when really close up. An idea that could be good for stealth is that enemies will follow drips of blood, so bodies after a fight or lethal takedown will be hard to conceal.

Thoughts? Ideas?

EDIT: Another idea I had was that enemies look up after finding a dead body.

I completely agree with what you said about the hearing range and about enemys following blood stains, but the sneak crouching being heard only when really close up sounds like too easy. Maybe only for the rats and more distant to the other especies, I don't know.

About the patrols, we could have situational alternative patrol paths , so when there is more than one enemy patrolling the area and one see the other (or others) down, he would investigate the body and adopt a new path somewhat near the fallen guard, searching for the killer. The way I thought, it could be made in the editor exactly like the normal paths, but being correlated with the AI and using a different key.

[bayc]

the sneak crouching being heard only when really close up sounds like too easy. Maybe only for the rats and more distant to the other species, I don't know.

Maybe different species have different traits. (Idk which would go where though) One is bad with sound, others have more jumbled raycast beams (harder to notice things) etc. Just an idea

[Peruraptor]

I agree with the original OPs idea of putting the sound distance while running back to normal, but keeping the sneaking sound hard to hear unless your extremely close. It is called sneaking after all.

[Lime_x]

They should maybe just constantly look around more when pathing.
Another idea that might make them OP if it is not done correctly is that they know their friend's paths, and if they aren't there, then they path around like if they find a body.

I think it's quite a good idea to have them look around every once in a while. Perhaps kind of like in Deus Ex Human Revolution where some guards would casually look behind them while patrolling, in which case, if you were following them at that moment, you would be detected.

[TheCyclonicStorm]

I think it's quite a good idea to have them look around every once in a while. Perhaps kind of like in Deus Ex Human Revolution where some guards would casually look behind them while patrolling, in which case, if you were following them at that moment, you would be detected.

I agree; the Patchy Highlands default level is supremely easy if you choose to choke the rabbits out, but if they were to glance behind every once in a while, on an irregular basis, you'd have to hide in concealed places, rather than just taking a nice leisurely stroll behind them.

[Mr. Blonde]

I'd just like to point out that some of the challenges and levels are broken now because the rabbits on patrol are supposed to pick up weapons at the start and then proceed to their route but now they wait until they see an enemy and run to the weapons then. Rather easy now to just grab their weapon and go running and slashing enemies or when you get to combat they run towards a weapon. Seems a bit worse than before.

[akazi]

The ai now have to also see the weapon in order the pick it up, instead of only being in a certain radius of the weapon. So you pretty much have to make sure weapons are attached to the characters when editing levels now. I think it's way better now.

[Vespabros]

I think it's way better now.

Yep, I agree.

Also, anyone here play Metal Gear? It's my personal favorite stealth game, it would be really neat if a similarly behaving AI was in this game. But rather than having a definitive line between being spotted and being hidden, there should be some grey area, and uncertainty, that's what makes stealth games exciting. Taking risks, unpredictability, while at the same time taking advantage of predictable situations.

I find stealth games most satisfying when I don't understand how the AI behaves. That's why I wasn't particularly satisfied with Assassins creed games. It quickly went from "Will they find me? Am i hidden well enough? what should i do?" to "Alright, 5 of them are gonna pass me here, they're not gonna see me because i'm in a hidden zone, i'll just stab this one guy and the alert will be over. Rinse, repeat."