Suggestion regarding enemy/NPC behaviour

[Zhukov]

Apologies for the looong post. I'm only ever concise when the occasion calls for verbosity.

One thing that has always disappointed me in all computer games - be they FPSs, RPGs, you name it - is the very simplistic behaviour displayed by non-player characters (NPCs), enemies in particular. The general rule seems to be that friendly characters wander about ignoring the player altogether (unless provoked) and hostile characters attack on sight. There may be some variation in the manner of attack and so forth, but the basic pattern is constant.

For an example of this, we need look no further then Lugaru. Friendly characters ignore the player unless provoked. When an enemy spots the player they charge forward and a fight to the death ensues. (To its credit, Lugaru features enemies that will on occasion run for help. Many games don't even have that.) Don't get me wrong, this set of behaviours does the job to a satisfactory degree. However I feel that more is possible*.

So... might I be so bold as to suggest - as timidly as possible - that Overgrowth do something a little different?

Here are a couple of theoretical scenarios to give you some idea of what I mean.

1. Say Turner/the player is walking through a lightly wooded area on the way to... wherever. He comes across a female bear** and a couple of cubs dozing in the sun. Now, so long as he keeps his distance the bears will ignore him and get on with their dozing. If Turner get within a set distance the adult bear sits up and begins to watch him until he retreats. If he gets even closer the adult bear snarls or (if we're talking anthropomorphic bears) gives some verbal threat. At this point any player with a lick of sense will make themselves scarce. However, should Turner come even closer then the bear cubs will leg it, mother bear will lose her patience and the fur will start to fly. This is where most games would resort to the good old enemy-charges-and-fight-to-the-death-ensues formula. But in this scenario the mother bear isn't interested in a fight, to the death or otherwise, she just wants this heavily armed psycho-bunny to stay the hell away from her kids. So rather then actually attack the player, the bear would roar and posture and feint until the cubs have got clear, then break off and follow them. (Of course, if during any of this the player performs an attack then all bets are off.)

2. While searching for a concealed encampment of hostile rats, Turner is spotted by a couple of rat sentries. Once again, this is the point where in most games gratuitous violence would occur. However, why not instead have one of the sentries shadow Turner and keep out of sight while the other quietly double-times it back to the main camp in order to prepare an unpleasant surprise.

Please bear in mind that I have absolutely no knowledge of computer game AI or scripting. I do not know if scenarios such as those outlined above are even remotely feasible. Perhaps there's a good reason why I haven't see this sort of stuff before. However, if such things are possible then I believe that their inclusion in Overgrowth would add significantly to the immersion factor, re-playability and value of the game.


PS. On a related but much more general note, are there perhaps any tasty tidbits of info regarding Overgrowth AI/scripting that the esteemed developers would be willing to share with us ravening fans?


*Hell, I've only ever seen two games in which enemies would ever surrender before being killed. And only one in which the player was able to do so.
**To the best of my knowledge there has been no mention of bears in OG. It's just an example.

[Cyanite]

These are good ideas, and if you don't mind, I would like to add another suggestion, which is one I've made a long while ago:

Is there any way that NPCs can be programmed to fight each other? I think entering a fight that's already started without you would make the game seem much more dynamic, though I guess that would have to tie into the storyline.

[Zhukov]

Is there any way that NPCs can be programmed to fight each other?

Perhaps there could be a way(s) for the player to instigate NPC fights.
Getting chased by wolves? Just lead them to a rabbit outpost then slip away and watch the carnage from a distance.

[Johannes]

I like this, especially the NPC shadowing you... However that would be incredibly difficult to program well... More feasible I find is the concept of half of the guards going for you while one or two high tail it back to their camp as you said.

[Chainsaw man]

One thing I do expect in Overgrowth is that when a carnivor kills you or KOs you, the carnivors group when not ocupied will come and tear you apart, and try to eat you, munching on things like internal organs and lapping up blood, with the ocasonal satire statments of "Hey, who wants to break the wish bone with me?" or "Im incharge here, So I get the head!"

[Ozymandias]

Lol, gruesome XD om nom nom bunniez yum

I dunno if it would be -that- detailed though. Maybe just generic huddling over while some sort of 'eating' animation plays =o assuming the wolves are hungry...

[Chainsaw man]

Well, if decaps and destructable modles are in play, I say go with it.
Chucnky blood snouts FTW

[Johannes]

Well, if decaps and destructable modles are in play, I say go with it.
Chucnky blood snouts FTW

..,when a carnivor kills you or KOs you, the carnivors group when not ocupied will come and tear you apart, and try to eat you, munching on things like internal organs and lapping up blood...

Hmm, Sadistic and Masochistic. Ah, video games can bring out the best in all of us =P


On the point of violence, the first Lugaru was reasonably gruesome, But admittedly there was no dismemberment or decapitation (disregarding a certain optional cheat) and even such an act as slitting a throat was minimal in blood and gore.

Not to mention, What set Lugaru apart in the indie gaming community was its deceptively simple yet versatile gameplay, and challenging, fun, fast paced fighting. Not that you could, say, blow up a guy's head, set them on fire, or slit their throat... My point being is that what made Lugaru, Lugaru was not its violence. There have been hundreds of games that take it much, much further!

I think the team's efforts are better spent in creating great new game-play, and though violence was an integral part of Lugaru and most certainly will be of Overgrowth as well, It should not go much past what it was before in the first Game. And I feel that wolves ripping out and devouring your organs after they kill you takes it plenty further... If you're into violence just for the sake of violence, go play GTA and watch Happy tree friends :/


In any case I'm curious where The Devs will draw the line. Especially as an indie game keeping all but the most mature audience from playing your game because of overly excessive violence does not sound like a good move to me.

[Groveller]

Especially as an indie game keeping all but the most mature audience from playing your game because of overly excessive violence does not sound like a good move to me.

I'm not sure I understand what you mean. Whether you mean mature as in age, or... er... maturity, the less mature audiences will be attracted to it because of crazy gore and violence.

[Ozymandias]

There is such thing as too much gore. I personally wouldn't mind seeing one or more wolves bending over your corpse and playing an animation of some sort (not teabagging )... it would be... um... interesting to see the same animation but watch them cut you open and start to eat your juicy innards... that would be kinda unnecessary though, and would take effort to do...

Dismemberment would be interesting, but should only happen on the final blow, or on a blow that would normally kill them but instead dismembers a part of them where they can move for a few seconds before falling down (this is because I assume the player can be dismembered, and it won't be like in Rune where you simply find the closest jug of mead and drink it... presto! Instant arm!).

[VengenceMkII]

Ozy you crack me up.

Insta regeneration drinks XD

[Johannes]

Especially as an indie game keeping all but the most mature audience from playing your game because of overly excessive violence does not sound like a good move to me.

I'm not sure I understand what you mean. Whether you mean mature as in age, or... er... maturity, the less mature audiences will be attracted to it because of crazy gore and violence.

Yeah, I'm sorry, my point there was very vague. I guess what I mean is that if websites review it as 'Extremely violent' that of-course a certain crowd (looking at you chainsaw man) would be attracted to it, but that would be a fraction of the amount of people that would play it if it was less violent, and therefore less people would be put off by it. Gish, World of Goo, and other independent games have comic violence at best, and they certainly are doing very well.

There is such thing as too much gore. I personally wouldn't mind seeing one or more wolves bending over your corpse and playing an animation of some sort (not teabagging )... it would be... um... interesting to see the same animation but watch them cut you open and start to eat your juicy innards... that would be kinda unnecessary though, and would take effort to do...

Right. The eating thing overall can be made to work. Wolves are the predators after all. For example you could have a wolf come up to the body, sit down, grab the leg, and start gnawing on it, and it would even be somewhat comical, would get the point across and would not require anywhere near as much gore.

Dismemberment would be interesting, but should only happen on the final blow, or on a blow that would normally kill them but instead dismembers a part of them where they can move for a few seconds before falling down (this is because I assume the player can be dismembered, and it won't be like in Rune where you simply find the closest jug of mead and drink it... presto! Instant arm!).

Yeah, dismemberment should only happen for large swords, and only once your armor is worn through, and then be an instant kill. Just like in Lugaru 1, without armor a sword slice is an instant kill.

[Glabbit]

There is such thing as too much gore. I personally wouldn't mind seeing one or more wolves bending over your corpse and playing an animation of some sort (not teabagging )... it would be... um... interesting to see the same animation but watch them cut you open and start to eat your juicy innards... that would be kinda unnecessary though, and would take effort to do...

I could see a use for it, though.
If some wolf is munching on a rabbit, he'd be less alert and you could sneak up for a neck-snap more easily.
Maybe we don't need the seperate animation or the extra gore... just put on a bloody decal showing something vaguely organ-like, if anything.
And the animation wouldn't need to be much work... Just a crouch with the wolf's arms going up and down or something... with a little turning of the hands to imply something being lifted to his mouth, or what..

Dismemberment would be interesting, but should only happen on the final blow, or on a blow that would normally kill them but instead dismembers a part of them where they can move for a few seconds before falling down (this is because I assume the player can be dismembered, and it won't be like in Rune where you simply find the closest jug of mead and drink it... presto! Instant arm!).

Hah, yes, nice way of putting it. Rune was amazing fun =D
Dismemberment... yes. /agree.

[Chainsaw man]

Well, Internal organs do not have to have extream detail, just buy some liver from the butcher and put it in your Scaner and you got yourself a texture that should pass or take a standard steak meat modle with a rich red tint that 'paints' other things that it comes into contact with.

Wolf munching on Rabbit drumstick sounds funny too, why not a custom decal showing a wolf bite? Enough of the Decals would cause specific sounds to play? Each of the Bite marks sends painting blood particls that cover targets in blood?

Also, this disemboulment thing, take the Zombis From HL2 with there chest open and all, and put this stuff to good use? http://blog.wolfire.com/2006/02/model-skinning/ (look at the glowy points hes reaching)

[Jimmy Jazz]

eewwwww......