Overgrowth Gameplay Difficulty Relative To Lugaru

[XerxesQ]

Having the Lugaru campaign fresh in my mind, I'm wondering how Overgrowth's difficulty curve will compare to Lugaru's difficulty space elevator.

I'm a bit concerned that with Overgrowth's new focus on (so I perceive) storytelling and mainstream appeal, it might repeat this same design mistake. Lugaru was a really, really, really, really fun piece of cake up until the first time I had to fight a wolf. Then I died. A lot. I was relieved to fight rabbits again in the next level, only to have that one three wolf level later on. Then the wolf den level. Now, granted, I eventually figured out that I had been Doing It Wrong™ with my combat style the entire game and that wolves were just less forgiving in this regard (and they couldn't be disarmed of their bleeding-makers), but my new tactics were only a slight bit of help against their ridiculous reflexes and tremendously unbalanced attack strengths. And this was on easy.

This did considerably lengthen the game, granted, but it was a frustrating method of doing it. Most of the players in between TF2 matches who see this new game pop up on Steam next year and wonder if they should buy it just for kicks will not be pleased by this, and assuming Overgrowth will have a more fleshed-out, compelling story than Lugaru's admittedly bland one, such a difficulty spike could be an impetus to connecting with the characters.

So in so many words, I suppose what I'm trying to say is...will the wolves be less annoying in Overgrowth? Like, will it be possible to fight three at once for more than five seconds before death?

[Skofo]

Maybe you just suck at the game.

Also, I don't see why they'd awesome-ize the engine, graphics, story, and sound but not the difficulty curve. I don't think you have anything to worry about. A better solution to making the difficulty curve more curvy than gimping the wolves would probably be to introduce them at a better time, though. Perhaps introduce the player to enemy squirrels before wolves. I like that the wolves are as tough as they are. They are predators designed to kill things like rabbits, after all.

And it's really fun to die in Lugaru, so who cares?

[Vrav]

Well, there were difficulty levels in Lugaru. I started on easy and it was fine, then did a playthrough of each higher difficulty in succession. The experience made it possible to succeed greater challenges; if I'd started on Insane? I would not have stood a chance. (Actually, I think I did, and miserably failed.) So I can see something similar in Overgrowth... but knowing the dev team, they might just do something craaazy like play-adjusted AI difficulty as an option. Aahh!

[Ozymandias]

Perhaps introduce the player to enemy squirrels before wolves

Squirrels are going to be the boss enemies because they're just that good.
*ahem*
But seriously though, I do agree. Perhaps start off with a bunch of rats that completely suck at combat and such... work up to rabbits and stuff... mix in rat/rabbit/squirrel/whatever fighting (it would be interesting, especially if each species has a somewhat different fighting style... you just beat a rabbit but then you face a squirrel, switch tactics)... Then after a while maybe you fight wolves that haven't seen a lot of combat, or are sick/whatever could cause them to kinda suck... then work your way up to beating regular wolves and such, along with whatever other nasty beasts that want to maim/eat you.

[nutcracker]

Xerxes, Its just your skill, I can beat 6 wolves on insane (wolves den)
You will learn how to kill wolves, but you are still gonna die a few times.

[drizztmainsword]

Well, what is that secret?

This is a little off-topic, but I'm coming back to Lugaru as well (I lost my last license), and I breezed right through everything until those three wolves.

Maybe I just haven't played in a while, but what is the best mindset / overall strategy for beating a wolf? Aside from a bo staff. Those just make it easy .

On that same note: Skofo has it right in terms of difficulty curve. I have little doubt that the curve will be more forgiving. Still, there is something to be said for a fiercely difficult level. By the time the average player gets there, they're obviously enjoying themselves.

[XerxesQ]

Xerxes, Its just your skill, I can beat 6 wolves on insane (wolves den)

I see. I'd ask you to train me but that would require you to have a life.

No, seriously, I understand that different people have different skill levels. I just can't imagine that the ability to easily kill 6 wolves at once on Insane difficulty is representative of most people who'd potentially buy Overgrowth. Perhaps it's representative of most people on this forum, but the people on this forum are, in most cases, rabid fans of Lugaru.

Might be interesting to see what kind of chatter comes as The Great Divine Miracle of Free Lugaru spreads to the non-believers. I really hope for the sake of Overgrowth's popularity that these forums will soon be flooded with n00bs complaining about fighting wolves while drooling at the Overgrowth screenshots.

And it's really fun to die in Lugaru, so who cares?

It gets old after the seventh or eighth time five seconds into the same level. I can only imagine it would be less fun in Overgrowth where the story will likely be more interesting and load times will be somewhat longer (not that I'm hoping for the latter, but it seems inevitable).

[Hal1989]

I can only imagine it would be less fun in Overgrowth where the story will likely be more interesting and load times will be somewhat longer (not that I'm hoping for the latter, but it seems inevitable).

For you, maybe, but that's what I like about challenges. Like I suck greatly at Mortal Kombat (barely beat the first battle), but I still like playing it, because I know I'm going to beat that damn thing someday. You can put any games if you want, but the scenario will be the same, lol XD

I do suck at Lugaru too, tough I know I can get trough by trying different strategies and it usually succeed. I do like that because I need to use my head to be able to do something, not like games that makes you succeed by just rushing mindlessly like Oblivion.

Besides, no matter how the difficulty will be, but there will always be players that will come crying because its too easy/hard.

[Groveller]

A better solution to making the difficulty curve more curvy than gimping the wolves would probably be to introduce them at a better time, though. Perhaps introduce the player to enemy squirrels before wolves. I like that the wolves are as tough as they are. They are predators designed to kill things like rabbits, after all.

And it's really fun to die in Lugaru, so who cares?

Totally agree with this except one point: I think a pack of wolves should be introduced early on, when the player is totally unarmed and unarmoured. Turner should be just passing through on his way somewhere, and decide to sneak past. This could introduce players to the game's stealth system - most people won't have played a game where the enemies can smell them - and also to the idea that fighting isn't always the best choice. Most people would try to fight them at least once, and be quickly nommed up, lesson learned. I think lessons like that should be short and brutal. On the other hand some people, you know who you are, will keep trying to beat the wolves until they succeed.

[Jeff]

We're going to do a lot of play testing and make sure the game is accessible.

[nutcracker]

Xerxes, Its just your skill, I can beat 6 wolves on insane (wolves den)

I see. I'd ask you to train me but that would require you to have a life.

No, seriously, I understand that different people have different skill levels. I just can't imagine that the ability to easily kill 6 wolves at once on Insane difficulty is representative of most people who'd potentially buy Overgrowth. Perhaps it's representative of most people on this forum, but the people on this forum are, in most cases, rabid fans of Lugaru.

Might be interesting to see what kind of chatter comes as The Great Divine Miracle of Free Lugaru spreads to the non-believers. I really hope for the sake of Overgrowth's popularity that these forums will soon be flooded with n00bs complaining about fighting wolves while drooling at the Overgrowth screenshots.

And it's really fun to die in Lugaru, so who cares?

It gets old after the seventh or eighth time five seconds into the same level. I can only imagine it would be less fun in Overgrowth where the story will likely be more interesting and load times will be somewhat longer (not that I'm hoping for the latter, but it seems inevitable).

Yes, I have a life, not great but I can live with it

[Ozymandias]

Xerxes, Its just your skill, I can beat 6 wolves on insane (wolves den)
You will learn how to kill wolves, but you are still gonna die a few times.

Not everyone is a pro. If you pit a newcomer to a bunch of wolves they're going to get their ass kicked again and again...

Plus, Lugaru didn't really tell you many strategies. Perhaps you meet someone in a town named Silb that gives you hints on how to fight wolves (so that some people will know how to do it without looking at a forum or wiki article)

[Zaphon]

I had some trouble with the wolves when I began playing Lugaru on the harder difficulties, but you develop strategies after a little while. Lots of flips, leg sweeps, wall kicks and leg cannons, and you're a WOLF SLAYER in a jiffy. (Those are my 'cheap' tactics at least ;P)

Anyways, Lugaru is so much fun, especially when you get better at it. Keep playin'!

[GaGrin]

I think the only issue is that the game doesn't take its curve low enough.

Lugaru's "Easier" is prettymuch any other game's Normal or Hard mode. That just needs to be tweaked so we have an easier bottom level and yet keep the adrenaline high of insane (which personally is too much for me - but I don't want to deprive the rabid junkies )

David and Jeff have both mentioned this in the past (David even mentioned a potential to have the game take into account how well you're doing, but I don't know if thats still on the table) so I'm not worried about it.

[Sandurz]

I think the only issue is that the game doesn't take its curve low enough.

Lugaru's "Easier" is prettymuch any other game's Normal or Hard mode. That just needs to be tweaked so we have an easier bottom level and yet keep the adrenaline high of insane (which personally is too much for me - but I don't want to deprive the rabid junkies )

I completely agree. The first time I got through the whole thing on easy, I thought it was an accomplishment. Then I tried insane......Nuff said.