Wolfire Games Forums

In response to the most recent blog post,
http://blog.wolfire.com/2009/05/non-let ... l-weapons/

One of the comments had an interesting idea, that I've kind of modified a bit.

When attacking an enemy with a non-bladed weapon, such as a hammer or staff, it would be possible to have them be knocked out without being dead. The enemy would go into a ragdoll for a while, maybe stirring a bit to show that he's still alive.

You would then have the choice (probably after you defeat the rest of the enemies, but whenever you like), to either deal the final blow or allow him to live.

This system could also factor into the notoriety system. Killing would obviously lower it, letting them go would raise it. The system could also be taken a step farther, allowing multiple notoriety levels for different races. Depending on the race alliances and such, killing a Rabbit would give you an eviler notoriety towards them, but a higher level to, say, Wolves or another Rabbit enemy. So having mercy towards an enemy would not necessarily raise your level of goodness.

This way, Notoriety could have much more of an effect on the game, and keep it from being the cliche good vs. evil and it would make it much more dynamic. Plus, you would feel much more emotion tied to the choice, since there are consequences for both options.

This system would probably only work with non-bladed weapons, as a stab in the chest will pretty much kill you no matter what, and it would be bad to break the fluidity with a "Hold the Blade to the Head when they're on the Ground" kind of move. It might work if maybe dismembering an arm would not completely kill them.

It would also make for some awesome finishing moves.

Comments? Discussion?

I thought there was some kind basic system in lugaru for being knocked out, that to my knowledge only gave you the 'award' brutal

tomascokis wrote:I thought there was some kind basic system in lugaru for being knocked out, that to my knowledge only gave you the 'award' brutal

Yeah, I'd like to see your actions have a wider effect on your standings with different groups, rather than just an award. It would make the game much more in-depth.

TheBigCheese wrote:When attacking an enemy with a non-bladed weapon, such as a hammer or staff, it would be possible to have them be knocked out without being dead. The enemy would go into a ragdoll for a while, maybe stirring a bit to show that he's still alive.

You would then have the choice (probably after you defeat the rest of the enemies, but whenever you like), to either deal the final blow or allow him to live.

You are aware that this part is already in Lugaru, right? Just checking.

tomascokis wrote:I thought there was some kind basic system in lugaru for being knocked out, that to my knowledge only gave you the 'award' brutal

Incorrect, but you're on the right track. The 'brutal' award is given when you (a) kill all enemies, and (b) kill at least one of them after he has been rendered unconscious.
Other relevant awards are 'take no prisoners' and 'merciful'. The former is given for killing all enemies, the latter for leaving all enemies unconscious but alive.

Sorry, I worded that badly.

My suggestion was more of the effect on notoriety on multiple groups, positive or negative, as opposed to just a single bad/good meter.

I was drawing off one of the responses to the blog post in the comments section.

I think that'd be a great idea. I like the dimensionality it could add to the game. Except I'm not totally clear on what it WOULD add. If you got a reputation for killing wolves, but not rabbits, how would that change the behavior of future rabbits and wolves?

Zhukov wrote: The 'brutal' award is given when you (a) kill all enemies, and (b) kill at least one of them after he has been rendered unconscious.
Other relevant awards are 'take no prisoners' and 'merciful'. The former is given for killing all enemies, the latter for leaving all enemies unconscious but alive.

I really think there needs to be an easier way of telling whether someone's alive or dead. In Lugaru about the only thing way you can know for sure that someone is dead is by stabbing them

idbeu wrote:If you got a reputation for killing wolves, but not rabbits, how would that change the behavior of future rabbits and wolves?

TheBigCheese wrote:My suggestion was more of the effect on notoriety on multiple groups, positive or negative, as opposed to just a single bad/good meter.

I agree with Cheese - For this sort of thing to work you'd probably need a seperate reputation variable for each race/faction (if not 2: one for fear and one for hate) - the game would need to keep track of how many members of each race/faction you'd encountered/stunned/killed and how (unarmed/stealth/direct combat), and could extrapolate based on these counters how you should be seen in the future by this particular race/faction.
It seems complicated but it's very simple AI really - it can all be reduced to the sort mathematical equation that computers are exceedingly comfortable with.

I agree with Cheese - For this sort of thing to work you'd probably need a seperate reputation variable for each race/faction (if not 2: one for fear and one for hate) - the game would need to keep track of how many members of each race/faction you'd encountered/stunned/killed and how (unarmed/stealth/direct combat), and could extrapolate based on these counters how you should be seen in the future by this particular race/faction.
It seems complicated but it's very simple AI really - it can all be reduced to the sort mathematical equation that computers are exceedingly comfortable with.

Having different levels of notoriety would affect the aggressiveness of the enemies, the number and how well prepared they are for you.

If you've left a slaughter of enemies in your wake, chances are they would be better prepared for your arrival.

Also, this would probably work better in terms of factions rather than races.

^
Sounds like an interesting way of controlling difficulty.


I like that idea.

their mouths were closed if they were alive. and if you, for some reason I'll never know, weren't playing on insane, they were a lighter shade of grey on the map.

Wilbefast wrote:I really think there needs to be an easier way of telling whether someone's alive or dead. In Lugaru about the only thing way you can know for sure that someone is dead is by stabbing them.

If you look closely you can see unconscious enemies breathing. Also, their eyes are closed.
Dead enemies do not breath and their eyes are open. Also, there is often blood involved.

TheBigCheese wrote:this would probably work better in terms of factions rather than races.

Yeah, assuming that there are multiple factions per race of course - if on the other hand there are multiple races per faction then each race within that faction would react slightly differently to your indescriminate killing of their compatriots: wolves might get angry, rats might get scared, etc.

Zhukov wrote:

Wilbefast wrote:I really think there needs to be an easier way of telling whether someone's alive or dead. In Lugaru about the only thing way you can know for sure that someone is dead is by stabbing them.

If you look closely you can see unconscious enemies breathing. Also, their eyes are closed.
Dead enemies do not breath and their eyes are open. Also, there is often blood involved.

Well then, clearly I am an unobservant git

I can just see a bunch of Rats not wanting turner in there village and everyone (towns folk) Grabbing a rock and casting him with stones until he leaves.

Chainsaw man wrote:I can just see a bunch of rats not wanting turner in their village and everyone (towns folk) grabbing a rock and casting him with stones until he kicks all their asses.

Changed to reflect what many players would do.