Fighting system thoughts[if only Wolfire would listen to..]

[xrodneyx]

i bet Overgrowth would only win if Wolfire will concentrate now only on fighting systems and flexible animations, to become best real fighting (not like UFC one-on-one, as example) sim..
It will be great if OG will support players to use different martial arts principles to create their own unique fighting styles inside the game;
And maybe Wolfire would invite some friendly martial artists and combat sports instructors (for example, from Ki Aikido, Yoshinkan or Aikikai aikido - Ki and Yoshinkan are very different, judo, some Karate - but no "astral karate", muay thai, taekwondo, wing chun - those who closer to sparrings and actual combat, eskrima, etc) to judge Overgrowth fighting system in terms of reality and combat abilities (when it will be build in some state)

That's what people liked about Lugaru somehow, it's simpleness and beauty of fighting

if not, Overgrowth would become "just another strange but good game" for general public

tips for gameplay:

-make in-combat camera auto-adjusting in direction of incoming enemies (when already in battle and incoming enemy is heard)
-make unique combat expirience by adjusting "combat preferences" scales like "quickness"(like Bourne, Jet Li movies), "brutalness" (like some strong or badass guys) or "aiki" (neutralize by disbalance, and it looks beauty); then maybe priorities of self-stability, self-safeness, "harmony" (aiki?), destructing enemies balanse etc

-and like in Batman AA, make player choose offensive (maybe in Single game give player choise of what body target to hit? and if possible, after first attack player will do combo) or deflecting move, also stunning etc

i would create fighting profiles with parameters of The Boss female character (from Metal Gear Solid 3, uses "japanized" CQC), Seagal (brutal mix of Aiki, wing chun and escrima), Jet Li - like in Danny the dog (Unleashed in USA) and Fist of legend movies, and of course my own unique combat style If only Wolfire could do it

sorry for my engrish

[Endoperez]

i bet Overgrowth would only win if Wolfire will concentrate now only on fighting systems and flexible animations, to become best real fighting (not like UFC one-on-one, as example) sim..
It will be great if OG will support players to use different martial arts principles to create their own unique fighting styles inside the game;
And maybe Wolfire would invite some friendly martial artists and combat sports instructors (for example, from Ki Aikido, Yoshinkan or Aikikai aikido - Ki and Yoshinkan are very different, judo, some Karate - but no "astral karate", muay thai, taekwondo, wing chun - those who closer to sparrings and actual combat, eskrima, etc) to judge Overgrowth fighting system in terms of reality and combat abilities (when it will be build in some state)

That's what people liked about Lugaru somehow, it's simpleness and beauty of fighting

This is not the first thread about combat suggestions. I decided back in January that a thread describing what I want to see will probably not be as effective as a thread SHOWING what I want to see, so I made a thread about videos that could be used as reference for various martial art styles, or various attacks.
viewtopic.php?f=2&t=4435

The videos have to show what the fighters are doing, and how they are moving, so I didn't post all-out fighting videos, but videos where the technique and such are easy to see. Many of the videos there are weapon demonstrations (swords, spears, clubs, sabres, sticks, daggers, staves, rapiers...). Page four has lots of aikido videos, but IIRC there are no judo, karate, muay thai or taekwondo videos. I haven't looked for "sports" martial arts videos yet. I'm not sure if there's any Wing Chun Chi Sao in there, if there isn't I'll have to post some.

If you have any cool videos to share, we can move that discussion to that thread. I've been supplying most of the videos so far, and it'd be nice to get a different view on what'd look good.


Here are some martial arts-related blog posts you might want to read, so you get a better idea of what the Wolfire team is going after:

http://blog.wolfire.com/2009/06/imbalanced-fights/
http://blog.wolfire.com/2009/05/ranged- ... vergrowth/
http://blog.wolfire.com/2009/05/non-let ... l-weapons/

There are others too, but you should note that the first draft of the fighting system has been abandoned, and other older posts may also be out-of-date.

Also, in one of the comments here David mentions that he took Aikido classes for a month:
http://blog.wolfire.com/2009/07/games-vs-life-handguns/

[zamzx zik]

fuck auto-adjusting cameras.

[Pablopa99]

fuck auto-adjusting cameras.

Yeah, they suck.

[Froyok]

fuck auto-adjusting cameras.

Yeah, they suck.

+1

[m3nace]

fuck auto-adjusting cameras.

Yeah, they suck.

that depends on how you're using it
like if there was a button you could press that would adjust the camera at a certain subject that would be fine for me. But I agree that having a camera that would jump around constantly would be annoying as shit, I hate it in most games I play.
But if it was a targeting camera, I'd like that as long as you'd have to activate it or hold a button to use it.

[Cysticcraze]

This is the beauty of a modding game, dont come one the forums and suggest what yo wanna see so much as "wish" for what you wanna see. Once the full game is released you can impliment all the desires you have for the game yourself. As for your suggestions, I dont like half of them, but like i said, they wanna make a game let them, if you dont like it mod it, you gotta start somewhere and this engine might be the place.

[m3nace]

This is the beauty of a modding game, dont come one the forums and suggest what yo wanna see so much as "wish" for what you wanna see. Once the full game is released you can impliment all the desires you have for the game yourself. As for your suggestions, I dont like half of them, but like i said, they wanna make a game let them, if you dont like it mod it, you gotta start somewhere and this engine might be the place.

+1
and as for the people who don't know how to mod: start learning now

but I still think that the fans contributing to the game would make it more perfect. None of us would like that Overgrowth becomes something of an abomination (though i really doubt that will EVER happen with these very talented devs).
Feedback and suggestions from fans can sometime be for the good you know
But still, some of these ideas are pretty out of place

[Cysticcraze]

And I think thats the whole point of modding. I personally hate the mods where they have the "Nuke gun," "Noob-Cannon," "Tickle-Tazer" and other childish names for poop launchers. I prefer the professional look and feel of a game, and I want to bring a very medieval style to this game. But my point is, there are prolly a few people out there that enjoy childish and stupid games, its always occured to me that I dont need to critisize or compliment these people, just let them do what they want. Suffice to say modding is the way to go, and adding suggestions will prolly be overlooked.

[if only Wolfire would listen to..]

The reason for this is they have made it available to you, they dont have to do what you can accomplish. They make an engine you build a game, thats modding and what Overgrowth has been since the beginning, get ready to go all out, beacuse they prolly arent interested in what you want, they expect you to make what you want.

[Endoperez]

The reason for this is they have made it available to you, they dont have to do what you can accomplish. They make an engine you build a game, thats modding and what Overgrowth has been since the beginning, get ready to go all out, beacuse they prolly arent interested in what you want, they expect you to make what you want.

I disagree with this part. Phoenix is an engine that's being built so Overgrowth will be awesome game. They're open to suggestions about how to make Overgrowth even more awesome. They keep asking for suggestions in the blog posts. They keep talking about Overgrowth and how the engine changes will help it, not listing of all the different kinds of games this feature might be useful in.

Making a moddable game is far different from ignoring what people say and telling them to do it themselves. Mods are more often about making a game better, than making whole games/total conversions.

I agree that modding will be a big part of Overgrowth, but what you described sounds more like what Unity is meant for.

[m3nace]

The reason for this is they have made it available to you, they dont have to do what you can accomplish. They make an engine you build a game, thats modding and what Overgrowth has been since the beginning, get ready to go all out, beacuse they prolly arent interested in what you want, they expect you to make what you want.

I disagree with this part. Phoenix is an engine that's being built so Overgrowth will be awesome game. They're open to suggestions about how to make Overgrowth even more awesome. They keep asking for suggestions in the blog posts. They keep talking about Overgrowth and how the engine changes will help it, not listing of all the different kinds of games this feature might be useful in.

Making a moddable game is far different from ignoring what people say and telling them to do it themselves. Mods are more often about making a game better, than making whole games/total conversions.

I agree that modding will be a big part of Overgrowth, but what you described sounds more like what Unity is meant for.

seconded

also Wolfire do listen to us from time to time, we just don't know whether or not it does any good for them, but they're are open to suggestions as long as they're not too radical. That's why this is an alpha and not a beta (apart from the engine not being done)

[Cysticcraze]

Meh, Ill stick to my theory, however im not apposed to being wrong. Alls im saying is put yourself in their shoes, they do what two years of work or more until the game is released, when you put that much effort into a game and someone tells you that they want it to be "this way," I dont know that I would pay much heed if it was me. However I do see them activley communicating with the community, so I wouldent be surprised if there were acceptions. Regardless in the few posts I have made about the game I honestly didnt expect any of them to be read by the wolfire team.

[Johannes]

Meh, Ill stick to my theory, however im not apposed to being wrong. Alls im saying is put yourself in their shoes, they do what two years of work or more until the game is released, when you put that much effort into a game and someone tells you that they want it to be "this way," I dont know that I would pay much heed if it was me. However I do see them activley communicating with the community, so I wouldent be surprised if there were acceptions. Regardless in the few posts I have made about the game I honestly didnt expect any of them to be read by the wolfire team.

You might want to check out some of the older posts here in the forums like the extent of modding.

The only thing that users will be able to do programming wise is javascript code which, though it may be faster than many people think, it is still nowhere near as fast and efficient as compiled C code, which the users will not have an option of providing. The whole fighting system will be part of the core engine and completely off limits to modders apart from markup language and JS for modifying specific variables and maybe calling some pre-made functions but that's about it code-wise.

You need to consider that wolfire is, at the moment at least, a tiny indie developer. As John explained at his GDC talk, the mindset of 'i've worked on this so long so I don't care what you think' was never in the picture because from the get-go they realized that being such a tiny fish in a huge pond they needed to make lots of noise and be very forthcoming to their fans. Only that way would they be able to garner a decent community and (hopefully) have a game that is that much more successful in the end.

They listen to what the community says, but not blindly. This is still -their- game. After all Wolfire has had almost a decade's worth of time with the Lugaru franchise and they know what they want the game to be far better than any of us fans.

[Cysticcraze]

Like I said I am not apposed to being proven wrong, however like i said previously, if I was in their position IDK that I would listen to suggestions from fans when I have a vision in mind. Thus said, if I wouldent pay attention, I wouldent expect them to, and I wouldent expect them to change their plans in the least for my own personal wants. If I really wanted a game that does exactly what I wanted it to do, I would mod it or start from scratch myself, not pay the guy 50$? and expect him (them) to modify his original intent for his game to follow my guidlines. That is not to say that you cant keep adding suggestions, just that adding comments like

[if only Wolfire would listen to..]

is almost disrespectful, however this isnt a bash on anyone, and I think I have gone to far with this logic debate by adding a second post, I prolly shouldent have said anything at all =S.

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