I had great hopes. I had great ambitions, and I still do. But look, I'm no programmer, I'm not an uber-technician . . . and I don't own PhotoShop or WorldMachine2. Are you telling me my poverty will keep me from experiencing the wonders of this engine?
I don't even mind having to alter an .xml file in order to see my creations.
There must be a much more straightforward way of introducing my own terrains into Overgrowth. I've tried .png heightmaps from all of my "terrain building" applications and from my generic graphics programs - only to result in miserable failures.
And, then, there is the matter of "Loading" my custom .xml level. I have no idea how long I'm supposed to wait before giving up and trying again. I don't know what all of the messages mean in the "console" window, (the one that launches when you click "Load"). I don't know, if, and when "Loading" gets stuck, when and where I'm supposed to press "Ctrl-F5".
If it sounds like I'm whining, it's because I am.
How many hours am I supposed to keep at this until something works by sheer "trial and error"?
On the positive side: I did succeed, (once), in getting "Lugaru2" to "Load" a custom terrain, but the height map was flat, (like the Wiki tutorials warned it would be) - the other textures seemed to be mapped where they were supposed to be, however.
So, the problem lies with the .png files generated by everything other than WorldBuilder2 or an "actual", "real" copy of Adobe Photoshop.
Are there any other possible workarounds?
Psmith
No PhotoShop, No Terrain?
No PhotoShop, No Terrain?
Last edited by Psmith on Mon Dec 07, 2009 11:05 am, edited 1 time in total.
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RabidRabbit
- Posts: 21
- Joined: Tue Dec 30, 2008 12:32 am
Re: No PhotoShop, No Terrain?
Shear should be spelt Sheer.
Re: No PhotoShop, No Terrain?
I think the problem is not so much not having Photoshop, but saving the png in the right format. I guess you could try gimp(which is free), load one of the existing heightmaps and experiment with changing it(don't forget backups).
Also, it would be good to get some more information on your system stats and the behavior of the engine with the default OG levels. Maybe part of your problems (the errors and freezing) happen because your system is not supported(yet). Only to rule out everything that is not directly related to your tinkering with the level files. Maybe there are multiple problems overlapping here.
Could you also provide some screen shots of those errors and maybe an example xml?
@ RabidRabbit: Stupidly pointing at grammar mistakes is not helpful.
Also, it would be good to get some more information on your system stats and the behavior of the engine with the default OG levels. Maybe part of your problems (the errors and freezing) happen because your system is not supported(yet). Only to rule out everything that is not directly related to your tinkering with the level files. Maybe there are multiple problems overlapping here.
Could you also provide some screen shots of those errors and maybe an example xml?
@ RabidRabbit: Stupidly pointing at grammar mistakes is not helpful.
Re: No PhotoShop, No Terrain?
World machine 2 can be used for free for height-maps up to 513x513 pixels in size. It's not the 2024x2024 size used by the engine but it will still work for experimentation at least, and apart from that is fully featured except for some multithreading and batching features.
The issue I've run into in the past is that for some reason height-maps work best if you duplicate an existing one, rename it, paste your own height-map into a layer over it (for which of-course you would need PS, or gimp as tokage pointed out) flatten the layers, and then save that, specifically not choosing 'save as...'
The issue I've run into in the past is that for some reason height-maps work best if you duplicate an existing one, rename it, paste your own height-map into a layer over it (for which of-course you would need PS, or gimp as tokage pointed out) flatten the layers, and then save that, specifically not choosing 'save as...'
Re: No PhotoShop, No Terrain?
Tokage:
Well, my thinking is that if one of my experiments worked without freezing, (even though the height map was not recognized), then it is not a factor of my machine not being supported yet.
Jo-Shadow:
Do you know that the Gimp's version of .png files work? If so, I'll definitely try that.
Update: After waiting, I think, for over an hour, with a height map and color and detail textures generated from the application "Earth Sculptor" - (fantastic, inexpensive, straightforward), my experimental terrain loaded properly into "Lugaru2". The heights were greatly exaggerated and the color map did not seem to be applied properly, however.
So, this is a definite decision by the developers to primarily support WorldBuilder2?
Psmith
Well, my thinking is that if one of my experiments worked without freezing, (even though the height map was not recognized), then it is not a factor of my machine not being supported yet.
Jo-Shadow:
Do you know that the Gimp's version of .png files work? If so, I'll definitely try that.
Update: After waiting, I think, for over an hour, with a height map and color and detail textures generated from the application "Earth Sculptor" - (fantastic, inexpensive, straightforward), my experimental terrain loaded properly into "Lugaru2". The heights were greatly exaggerated and the color map did not seem to be applied properly, however.
So, this is a definite decision by the developers to primarily support WorldBuilder2?
Psmith
Re: No PhotoShop, No Terrain?
All png should be compatible. So should non-world machine apps. I am not sure why your heightmap is looking funky. Earth Sculptor should have a bunch of options to tweak the output.
Re: No PhotoShop, No Terrain?
Jeff:
Is there any way to abbreviate the "waiting period", while the app is trying to process everything? Some of the files work after a very long wait, (an hour or so), but this makes experimentation really impractical for a mere mortal, (and an old one, at that).
What about that "Ctrl-F5" business? How, where and when do I use it?
Psmith
Is there any way to abbreviate the "waiting period", while the app is trying to process everything? Some of the files work after a very long wait, (an hour or so), but this makes experimentation really impractical for a mere mortal, (and an old one, at that).
What about that "Ctrl-F5" business? How, where and when do I use it?
Psmith
Re: No PhotoShop, No Terrain?
As far as I know, Ctrl-F5 only applies when running the engine from Visual CPP.
This is for debugging reasons: when David is for example testing some optimizations in the map loading code, and something goes wrong (of course, that's the fault of the compiler, not Davids), he'll press Ctrl-F5 from VCPP to get some more insight in what is causing the problem.
So, as a user, in most scenario's, you will never need this hotkey, except when you're trying to debug the game in assembly using VCPP (which would classify you as a scriptkiddy, the real stuff we coders use is IDA Pro ^^)
Imho, the message could be removed. I'm sure people at Wolfire are able to remember the hotkey.
- Black
Software and cathedrals are much the same - first we build them, then we pray.
This is for debugging reasons: when David is for example testing some optimizations in the map loading code, and something goes wrong (of course, that's the fault of the compiler, not Davids), he'll press Ctrl-F5 from VCPP to get some more insight in what is causing the problem.
So, as a user, in most scenario's, you will never need this hotkey, except when you're trying to debug the game in assembly using VCPP (which would classify you as a scriptkiddy, the real stuff we coders use is IDA Pro ^^)
Imho, the message could be removed. I'm sure people at Wolfire are able to remember the hotkey.
- Black
Software and cathedrals are much the same - first we build them, then we pray.
Re: No PhotoShop, No Terrain?
The pngs need to be 16-bit grayscale -- I assume the GIMP can handle that. The reason for this is that standard bitmaps only support 256 different values per channel, which leads to serious banding issues -- any kind of smooth hill starts to look like it has stairs carved into it.
None of us care one bit about what program is used to create the data, and there are free alternatives to every tool we use. The engine is just loading pixels from image files. Match the format and it will work.
None of us care one bit about what program is used to create the data, and there are free alternatives to every tool we use. The engine is just loading pixels from image files. Match the format and it will work.
Re: No PhotoShop, No Terrain?
David:
All of this sounds ideal. The problem is that if I can't get it to work, others are sure to be experiencing the same difficulties - they just aren't talking. Call me a jerk, but when I pay for something I have every hope that it will work for me. And, not just a hope, an expectation.
You must admit, spending your valuable time creating a terrain, putting the paths into an .xml file, and then waiting for (How Long?), an hour or more to even find out if there is an error or not, is really not the way it should work. And, right now, I don't have any expectations from the software other than an acknowledgment, from the development team, that this problem is a real one - and that they don't just write it off to "user incompetence".
Now, I'm telling you that I have used at least 3, industry standard .png formats as height map input into the Phoenix Engine to generate a custom terrain. On rare occasions, (2 to be exact), the engine does generate something. At other times, using the very same formula, the Engine gets stuck, with no comprehensible feedback to the user regarding why it got stuck.
Don't you think the development team could come up with a solution that would provide customers with an intelligent way to diagnose their own problems?
Psmith
All of this sounds ideal. The problem is that if I can't get it to work, others are sure to be experiencing the same difficulties - they just aren't talking. Call me a jerk, but when I pay for something I have every hope that it will work for me. And, not just a hope, an expectation.
You must admit, spending your valuable time creating a terrain, putting the paths into an .xml file, and then waiting for (How Long?), an hour or more to even find out if there is an error or not, is really not the way it should work. And, right now, I don't have any expectations from the software other than an acknowledgment, from the development team, that this problem is a real one - and that they don't just write it off to "user incompetence".
Now, I'm telling you that I have used at least 3, industry standard .png formats as height map input into the Phoenix Engine to generate a custom terrain. On rare occasions, (2 to be exact), the engine does generate something. At other times, using the very same formula, the Engine gets stuck, with no comprehensible feedback to the user regarding why it got stuck.
Don't you think the development team could come up with a solution that would provide customers with an intelligent way to diagnose their own problems?
Psmith
Re: No PhotoShop, No Terrain?
Psmith, is it quite possibly a bug and I'd like to look into it. It would be great if you could file a bug report with the files that are causing you problems and clear steps to reproduce so that we can figure out what the problem is. I am very sorry about the inconvenience and would like to offer you a full refund of your preorder.
I'm sorry to lose your support, and hope you will preorder again later when the engine is more mature.
I'm sorry to lose your support, and hope you will preorder again later when the engine is more mature.
Re: No PhotoShop, No Terrain?
Jeff:
Thank you for your courtesy in offering me a full refund. I would, however, like to keep trying to find a solution to this problem - that is, if you feel one is in the works relatively shortly. If you think this is something you need to put on a back burner, somewhere, then maybe I will take you up on your offer.
I filed a bug report ticket with a description and attached file. If the system allowed for larger attachments, I could send you more example .png files. As it stands, I was only able to fit one file that was the product of an EarthSculptor experiment.
Thanks for your time,
Psmith
Thank you for your courtesy in offering me a full refund. I would, however, like to keep trying to find a solution to this problem - that is, if you feel one is in the works relatively shortly. If you think this is something you need to put on a back burner, somewhere, then maybe I will take you up on your offer.
I filed a bug report ticket with a description and attached file. If the system allowed for larger attachments, I could send you more example .png files. As it stands, I was only able to fit one file that was the product of an EarthSculptor experiment.
Thanks for your time,
Psmith