Unofficial alpha 109, weekly build

[TheSkippyC]

each time i start up the new 109 build alpha it says:

the procedure entry point
?createWebView@WebCore@Awesomium@@AEPAVWebView@2@H
H_N0H@Z cold not be located in the dynamic link library
Awesomium.dll.

this is my first time downloading the alpha and i don't know what to do

Thanks SkippyC

[Ninjas]

This week we had a small problem with the Windows version of the alpha. You can unzip this and copy it over the existing .exe file and it should work. Sorry about the hassle!

http://cdn.wolfire.com/alpha/A109exe.zip

[codytheawesome2]

i didnt know you could jump kick! but anyways i vote that the next update be counters because they are amazing and also if you could give turner some more variations on attacks like some kicks and whatnot he seems much weaker than other characters, and all those cool cheats like slow mo and speed up and blowin peoples heads up woth hot keys i would apreciate all these things very much thank you!!

[GaGrin]

I don't think we're going to have explicit counter-attacks anymore, rather we will have to pick our own attacks TO counter (maybe with some contextual variation).

At least that's how it seems currently.

'm wondering if it's worth making a distinction between opportunity attacks (i.e. holding the button) and timed/planned attacks (tapping the button when you wish to attack).

Certainly range doesn't make any noticable difference to any of the attacks yet and especially for kicks and other slower but longer-range attacks that's going to make a big difference.

It's a work in progress, but it's very cool seeing the features stack up like this especially since for a very long time it was all tech and very little gameplay, this rapid prototyping of the combat system is really exciting to follow.

[Endoperez]

I don't think we're going to have explicit counter-attacks anymore, rather we will have to pick our own attacks TO counter (maybe with some contextual variation).

At least that's how it seems currently.

If "that's how it is now" is your only clue, I disagree. "Nonexistance of proof, is not proof of nonexistence". Lugaru had counterattacks, animal run, swords and sneaking. Just because they haven't been added in yet, doesn't mean they will never be.

[GaGrin]

Actually, it's got more to do with discussions on the forums regarding the "lock in" of such methods, as seen in Assassin's Creed. David as written a fair bit talking about the down-side of double-time counters in games regarding both game balance and control so, given that there aren't any explicit double-time* actions at all.

* I realise some of you may be unfamiliar with this term. Double-time in terms of fight timing means to parry and THEN attack, rather than to simply do both with the same action.

In Lugaru a single-time counter would be a leg-sweep against a round-house kick. You're both avoiding/protecting yourself from the attack and landing your own strike in the same action.

Most of Assassin's Creed's counters are double-time, and some of them are even more complex. This breaks the flow and of course in Lugaru (and so far in Overgrowth) such actions ARE interuptable by outside parties so any actions like this need to be quick. It makes more sense to simply give us the options and let us chain them together than to lock us into an action or sequence of action we can't abort and may regret.

[eagleFMJ]

Hi,
When I click to download the 'Alpha' It gives me a

'Forbidden
You don't have permission to access / on this server.'



edit: The 'slower' download option works for me.

[Endoperez]

Actually, it's got more to do with discussions on the forums regarding the "lock in" of such methods, as seen in Assassin's Creed. David as written a fair bit talking about the down-side of double-time counters in games regarding both game balance and control so, given that there aren't any explicit double-time* actions at all.

Thanks for the double-time/single-time explanation.

The posts I found aren't very recent, and aren't quite that clear about if Overgrowth/Lugaru 2 will or will not have counters of a specific type. For example, the counter-attacks could all be single-time, but activated as a counter instead of as an attack. For example, if a high kick can be avoided by crouching and by rolling, there are two different counter attacks that can be performed, but they could both be single-time and be activated by the same key, but NOT necessarily be attacks you could usually perform. I'll try to find some examples.

Here are the two most relevant posts I found:

2009:

Batman is just the next-generation of ridiculous hype. The fighting system in Batman is just another clone of the system popularized in 2003 by Prince of Persia: Sands of Time, which has also been cloned in many other games (e.g. Assassin's Creed) -- it is just a system of repeatedly pressing attack+direction until an opponent attacks, and then pressing the 'counter' button (or combination). It has no depth or challenge, but results in a convincing 'illusion of challenge' and 'cinematic experience'.

I tried out the Batman demo for a while at a local game store, and their fighting system is totally broken -- if you keep pressing the 'counter' button with one hand and read a book with the other, you will win all of the fights without getting hit.

2007:

I was thinking that shift would just dodge, and then click would perform a quick counter-attack, and rclick (or whatever 'grab' is set to) would let you set up more complex counters. In L1 it is often actually a bad idea to reverse an attack when there are multiple enemies around, because you don't have enough time between attacks, so it seems like it would be good to have more control over the complexity of your counter-attack. This might turn out to be too complicated, in which case it would have to be simplified, or a good dodge would enter slow motion briefly to let you figure out a response.

[GaGrin]

Fair point.

I'll admit I was going from memory, but the impression I'd got was that whatever actions we end up with need to be discrete individual actions so that we get finer control of what we're doing and that David wanted to avoid anything similar to the one-move-beats-all in AC.

Edit: I do think David is somewhat missing the point with the Batman combat system which is that the challenge isn't in winning, but rather winning in style - but that said, Lugaru is still my favourite system and alot of that comes from the pacing and brutal challenge of it.

[TRDanaa]

Yeah same here.

[Monkeh]

@Endoperez: Hm, didn't know David hated the Arkham Asylum combat. I actually loved it and would like to see him try playing it on hard while only pressing the counter-button and reading a book at the same time. I doubt he could get past the first battle.

[pandafriend]

I want to see how you play batman against enemys with weapons and electricity (of course with a book). The point of the system is, that against normal enemys you can use this tactic, but against harder opponents you will fail or you fail against the easy ones, cause an (bigger) enemy runs into your direction. I wouldnt say its easy. I would rather say, that it has an well made learning curve. Later in the game you should stay unnoticed, or you get killed by something/somebody.
Assassins Creeds combat system is really boring, but I like this game cause of the atmosphere and the well made cities and the first one cause of the interesting story. Now it gets more and more into the direction of simplified action, rather than an good storyline.

[GaGrin]

This is drifting a bit off topic now, but there are two things IMO that make AC too easy:

The first is the health/sync system and the level of damage dealt meaning that often it takes 4-5 blows in relatively quick succession before you're in any real danger.

The second is one that we see in lots of action games where the enemies stand around instead of attacking when they outnumber you. Now, to be fair, I think from my own sparring experience they definitely should slow down a bit and look to see who else is attacking because they need to give each other space - but fighting twelve people isn't hard if you're actually just fighting one guy twelve times.

I've fought my sparring instructor 2:1 buddying up and he's good enough that we NEED to attack more or less simultaneously to beat him and he does a very good job of making sure we get in each other's way or attack out of sync - which should more or less be the way to handle groups.

The counter-kill being easy to use would have been offset nicely if your opponents would make use of the opening to attack you.

It's a shame, I like the game alot, but it breaks the setting completely when you realise its actually EASIER to turn and face down eight or more armed soldiers (with more joining as you fight) than to simply make a path for yourself and run.

[Joelgaru]

i downloaded it but it doesnt work, it says "the procedure entry point ?createWebView@webcore@awesomium@@QAEPAVwebview@2@HH_N0H@Z could not be located in dynamic link library awesomium.dll " iv tryd unistalling and reinstalling and re-downloading and then re-installing but it says the same thing each time, can someone please help ?

[Anton]

i downloaded it but it doesnt work, it says "the procedure entry point ?createWebView@webcore@awesomium@@QAEPAVwebview@2@HH_N0H@Z could not be located in dynamic link library awesomium.dll " iv tryd unistalling and reinstalling and re-downloading and then re-installing but it says the same thing each time, can someone please help ?

It sounds like you need the patch, which was mentioned here.