[Weapon] Tribal GreatSword updated [9/07/13]

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samjb1992
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[Weapon] Tribal GreatSword updated [9/07/13]

Post by samjb1992 » Thu Aug 29, 2013 1:55 pm

hay guys,
I made a new custom sword. this is the first time I have made a custom normal map for a weapon so let me know if it looks off at all.

If you do not like the texture leave a comment with what you would liked changed and i will get to it when i have time.

enjoy :)

download link: https://www.dropbox.com/s/2ayb54gs50ltq ... tSword.zip

pics:
[current version]
TGS_Detail0.jpg
[older version]
TGS_OG_Shot.jpg
Last edited by samjb1992 on Fri Sep 06, 2013 10:03 pm, edited 4 times in total.

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Endoperez
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Re: [Weapon] Tribal GreatSword

Post by Endoperez » Thu Aug 29, 2013 5:01 pm

The shape is decent, but the texture sucks. It looks like foam painted with a spraycan. The hilt looks like yellow paper-mache, with a piece of string wound tightly around it while it was wet and removed once it was dry. Neither looks like metal.

Look at real weapons, and how the metal looks in there, and try to do the same thing. I've found this tumblr account to be really good for sword references:

http://art-of-swords.tumblr.com/


Crude metal blade:
http://art-of-swords.tumblr.com/post/59 ... alf-of-the

Golden, gilded or yellow hilts:
http://art-of-swords.tumblr.com/post/59 ... circa-1850
http://art-of-swords.tumblr.com/post/58 ... -of-origin

Closeups of metal decorations and blade:
http://art-of-swords.tumblr.com/post/59 ... aber-dated

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akazi
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Re: [Weapon] Tribal GreatSword

Post by akazi » Thu Aug 29, 2013 5:37 pm

The beginning of Endoperez's post sums up my thoughts about the texture.

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samjb1992
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Re: [Weapon] Tribal GreatSword

Post by samjb1992 » Fri Aug 30, 2013 1:35 pm

thank you endo for the ref pics and input. looking at again i saw what you mean about it not looking like metal. as for the handle of the sword it was meant to look like aged wood but i guess i have to work a lot more on the look of it.

i have start a new texture now and hope to have some pic of it up for comments with in the next two weeks.

EDIT: here are some pics of changes so far, i want an your feed back as to what needs major changes now and advice on how to change it.

pics:
TribalGreatSword3.jpg
TribalGreatSword4.jpg
TribalGreatSword5.jpg

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Constance
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Re: [Weapon] Tribal GreatSword

Post by Constance » Fri Aug 30, 2013 3:21 pm

Not to offend, but the handle looks like sponge.
That and the shape isn't very sharp, it looks soft and made of styrofoam.

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samjb1992
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Re: [Weapon] Tribal GreatSword

Post by samjb1992 » Fri Aug 30, 2013 3:27 pm

Timbles wrote:Not to offend, but the handle looks like sponge.
That and the shape isn't very sharp, it looks soft and made of styrofoam.
thanks for the input. i will work more on the handle more.

By "the shape isn't very sharp" are you talking about the blade tex, blade model, or handle tex?

Lastly what do you think i should do to the handle to give it more of a bone type texture?

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AmorphousGamer
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Re: [Weapon] Tribal GreatSword

Post by AmorphousGamer » Fri Aug 30, 2013 5:16 pm

samjb1992 wrote:
Timbles wrote:Not to offend, but the handle looks like sponge.
That and the shape isn't very sharp, it looks soft and made of styrofoam.
thanks for the input. i will work more on the handle more.

By "the shape isn't very sharp" are you talking about the blade tex, blade model, or handle tex?

Lastly what do you think i should do to the handle to give it more of a bone type texture?
He's saying that the blade doesn't look like it's sharp. It looks like it's thick, like a toy sword would be.
Terrible choice of words. I guess I'm trying to say that the edge looks like it's rounded rather than being in a state to cut things. Get it? :P

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samjb1992
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Re: [Weapon] Tribal GreatSword

Post by samjb1992 » Fri Aug 30, 2013 5:26 pm

AmorphousGamer wrote:
samjb1992 wrote:
Timbles wrote:Not to offend, but the handle looks like sponge.
That and the shape isn't very sharp, it looks soft and made of styrofoam.
thanks for the input. i will work more on the handle more.

By "the shape isn't very sharp" are you talking about the blade tex, blade model, or handle tex?

Lastly what do you think i should do to the handle to give it more of a bone type texture?
He's saying that the blade doesn't look like it's sharp. It looks like it's thick, like a toy sword would be.
Terrible choice of words. I guess I'm trying to say that the edge looks like it's rounded rather than being in a state to cut things. Get it? :P
okay we'll the blade looks better in game then in it does in the pics because the normal map is not applied in the pics so that is the low poly model

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Endoperez
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Re: [Weapon] Tribal GreatSword

Post by Endoperez » Sat Aug 31, 2013 6:28 am

You tried to make the metal there look like brushed metal, like factory-worked metal. Swords are forged with hammers, not cut from a solid block of steel.

The hammers make round circular marks on the metal, but these are covered by other hammer-strikes as the smith tries to smooth them all out. There are lots of very tiny dents left in there, often shaped like crescents or horse-shoes. These are very small and you can't see them normally (if the smith could see them he'd hammer them flat), but during the tempering process or when the blade rusts or when it gets dirty those small shapes will gather dirt or moisture faster, and they'll be visibly darker than the rest of the shape.
Often there are also tiny holes in the hand-forged metal. I think there might be charcoal residue in there, which gets burned or washed away as the blade is finished up after the forging. I'm pretty sure that hand-forged items can be made without those holes, just as they could be made without any hammer marks. However, as you want to make the metal look like hand-forged stuff, you want to put in those imperfect details.
Here's an extreme example:
http://www.unfinishedman.com/luneburg-b ... hen-knife/
Here's an example of what a normal knife that wasn't intentionally exaggerated might look, but it's still crudely finished. With good polishing most of the marks would go away.
http://www.aceros-de-hispania.com/battl ... er-pef1429

Hand-forged stuff can have the perpendicular "brushed" lines, but only when a file or a whetstone has been used on it. On swords, this usually only happens for the sharpened edges, not for the flat of the blade, not for the handguard, not for the handle. Look at the dice, the one on the right has file-marks:
http://www.kusudaknives.com/blog/

Also look at how small those items in the last link are. Compare them to the wood grain behind them. Those are TINY marks. Look at the wood grain and imagine how small those dice would be. On a sword with a 1024x or 2048x sized texture, those file-marks would be too small to be visible in the texture! The smallest dots and grooves would also be too small. You'd have to work on the bigger blemishes and beauty marks.


Modern galvanized metal has polygonal shapes in it, like so:
http://www.deviantart.com/art/Brushed-m ... e-80120537

Modern brushed metal has small lines all (usually) going to the same direction:
http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File: ... _metal.jpg

All metals are shiny. Your sword isn't shiny, yet. It needs a good specular map. It sould be specular all around, and the specular map should be VERY bright near all the edges. All shiny things have sharp contrast especially near the edges. It's usually a good idea to paint the edges in a lighter color at least in the specular maps, possibly in the actual color map as well. One way to do this is to create an "Ambient Occlusion" map.
http://polygonseverywhere.weebly.com/me ... games.html
http://www.indiedb.com/company/rising-s ... -texturing

Team Fortress makes heavy use :wink: of specular maps of metal weapons such as the minigun :lol:, even though the textures are extremely simplified. There is very,very little detail. There's a base color, edge highlighting... and that's about it for the colormap. Most games use much more detail in the colormap. However, you should look at how they can make it look like metal with so little detail. It's all in the specular map. It highlights the edges, the shiny surfaces, etc etc.
http://www.polycount.com/forum/showthread.php?t=73559

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samjb1992
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Re: [Weapon] Tribal GreatSword

Post by samjb1992 » Sun Sep 01, 2013 4:34 pm

okay I have a new texture made and ready for feed back. thanks to everyone who have been helping with ideas and leading me in the right direction. so please leave feed back on this texture that i hope is better then the others.
pics:
TribalGreatSword6.jpg
TribalGreatSword7.jpg
TribalGreatSword8.jpg

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Constance
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Re: [Weapon] Tribal GreatSword

Post by Constance » Sun Sep 01, 2013 6:53 pm

Oh hey, it's bone and not foam!

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Endoperez
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Re: [Weapon] Tribal GreatSword updated [9/01/13]

Post by Endoperez » Mon Sep 02, 2013 4:53 am

It looks like a bone handle with string or something wrapped around it. The blade still doesn't really look like anything specific. If it's metal, it's not shiny enough.

The blurriness and the colored areas "bleeding" into the nearby different areas are probably caused by bad UV unwrapping. If the bone area and the metal area are separated UV areas (also called "islands", divided by "seams" - I don't know what it's called in C4D), you can have perfect straight edges between them.

Another thing you can try is to use a "UV grid" image as the texture. This will show you how evenly the UV space is divided. On a well unwrapped model, the squares of the UV grid image are the same size and same shape all around the model.

Image

On a bad unwrap, things will be more like this, with the squeares extremely stretched and clear pixellation visible:

Image


On complex shapes such as the face, some stretching will most probably happen, but it's best to try to keep the stretching to the minimum.

Image

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samjb1992
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Re: [Weapon] Tribal GreatSword updated [9/01/13]

Post by samjb1992 » Tue Sep 03, 2013 8:35 pm

here are some updated texture pics:
TribalGreatSwordwhole1.jpg
TribalGreatSwordblade1.jpg
TribalGreatSwordbottom1.jpg
in game updated pic:
TGS_game2.jpg

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Endoperez
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Re: [Weapon] Tribal GreatSword updated [9/01/13]

Post by Endoperez » Tue Sep 03, 2013 10:16 pm

Good job on fixing the UVs! You're doing a really good job on this. You're basically alone, you don't have a teacher, and that really shows. you make lots of big and small mistakes, too many to count and mention at once, but every time you learn about the mistake, you fix it for the next update. You're doing a really superb job with it. That sort of learning and working on your own, dutifully iterating your work and really listening, understanding critique you get - that's a really important skill.

Frankly, your models and textures still aren't that good, but your attitude and the way you approach this makes me think they will be, one day.

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samjb1992
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Re: [Weapon] Tribal GreatSword updated [9/01/13]

Post by samjb1992 » Tue Sep 03, 2013 11:25 pm

Endoperez wrote:Good job on fixing the UVs! You're doing a really good job on this. You're basically alone, you don't have a teacher, and that really shows. you make lots of big and small mistakes, too many to count and mention at once, but every time you learn about the mistake, you fix it for the next update. You're doing a really superb job with it. That sort of learning and working on your own, dutifully iterating your work and really listening, understanding critique you get - that's a really important skill.

Frankly, your models and textures still aren't that good, but your attitude and the way you approach this makes me think they will be, one day.
thanks, what about the model and texture need changing? is it detailing or the size of the weapon compared to the characters size? and any advice on what I can do to improve would be great.

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