Receiver - I had some ideas for the weapon mechanics

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temp89
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Receiver - I had some ideas for the weapon mechanics

Post by temp89 » Mon Jun 18, 2012 11:16 am

I had similar ideas of a game that allowed you to manipulate your weapon realistically, but mine centred around mouse controls similar to the object manipulation controls of Amnesia & Penumbra.
What I propose is that pressing the Reload key creates a deadzone around your gun where you use the mouse cursor to click mag release buttons and drag back cocking levers. Having used the mouse control & physics in the game Penumbra, and then seen them further refined in Amnesia, I think it can be done without being clunky.

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Typically in games you just press a button and an animation is played showing the rapid exchanging of the empty magazine with a new one. In real life it is a process that needs the user’s attention and can take up valuable seconds.

Ingame example:

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The Green lines represents the deadzone. Mouse movement within this will not alter the player's direction. The Red lines represent parts of the gun that can be moved if clicked on or clicked & dragged with the mouse. The Purple lines represent POV boundary changes. They are always within the Green area and crossing the line with the mouse cursor will cause the player to shift their gun to a new perspective, e.g. move the mouse cursor from left-to-right across the right-most Purple boundary to turn the gun 90 degrees left so its right side is facing upwards. Move the cursor right-to-left across the Purple boundary that is now on the left-most side of the gun to return it to its normal position. This is so the player can access things like cocking-levers positioned on the right side of a weapon, or magazine releases on a Bull-Pup that would normally be hidden off-camera in the default FPS perspective. None of these lines would be visible in the game, they're just for tutorial purposes.

You wish to change magazine on an MP5. Press Reload key (defaut "R") to enter reload mode. Depending on how much accuracy vs. ease-of-use the devs want, you can either have it so you must click and drag the paddle release forward to release the magazine, or you could have it so that you only have to click and drag downwards on the magazine to release it. You then click and drag a magazine icon at the bottom of the screen (as spare magazines would be "below" the player in his vest/belt) and drag the icon up. This brings a 3D magazine model towards the receiver port until it clicks in. You then click and drag the cocking lever if the chamber was empty when you hit reload. Once this is done the game automatically leaves reload mode and you are free to shoot as normal. This happens on the previous step if a bullet was already chambered. Pressing R at any time, or switching weapon, will exit reload mode no matter what state the gun is in. A gun can be left in an unloaded state. Magazine icons and bullet counts are only visible during reload mode.

This adds a whole extra dimension to the guns and simultaneously makes an advance on traditional FPS gameplay. Bull-pups, normally examples of a game's best AR, will have the disadvantage of being slightly more fiddly to reload. Battle rifles with a big cocking lever like the FAL, or simpler designed guns like the AK47, will be easier to reload.

Also, guns will have a more physical presence. If a player wants to do things in the wrong order like manually eject all 30 cartridges, they can. If they want to flip up/down or twist the iron sights, they can. If they want to change the fire-select mode, they can.

Shotguns and bolt-action rifles would handle slightly differently. Bolt-action rifles automatically form the dead zone around the gun in between each shot fired. This is so the player can raise and pull backwards on the bolt with the mouse to chamber the next round. They still must press R to enter the full reload mode that allows them to insert a fresh magazine or load new rounds. Shotguns are slightly different. They fire faster than bolt-action rifles and it would be too cumbersome to make the player click & drag backwards on the pump with the mouse in between each shot. In between each shot the player will need to quickly move the mouse cursor downwards a few inches and then up once, to pump the shotgun. There is no deadzone and this will slightly jerk the player’s perspective, but this will simulate racking the pump on such a large weapon. Shotguns and bolt-action rifles are reloaded by dragging one round at a time into the gun until the mag is full.

The 3D hands shouldn't move except to raise or lower a mag. Animating them for all actions would be too much work and they would block the player's view.

Would definitely make changing to your sidearm a viable option if you run out of ammo mid-fight. Maybe drop your current gun if you change weapon whilst in the middle of Reload mode.

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Extended ideas to give the guns more physical presence. This would define the gameplay for the whole project and leave no room for the dev's ideas, so I'm not holding my breath.

Despite the clumsiness of its interface, I found the classic game Trespasser made guns “feel” the most real because they were actual objects you could pick up and interact with rather than having them fixed to the side of your screen with no movement like in most FPSs. Which is why I think the game should also feature extensive gun movement within the player’s field of vision. Like in games such as Red Steel, ArmA, Metroid Prime moving the mouse will move your gun and arms around until the crosshair (and gun) reaches the edge of the screen and then the player turns. This is done because it allows you to see your weapon from multiple angles and reminds you that it is an independent object from yourself. This will improve the “feel” of the gun much in the same way Trespasser did. Large guns will move slightly slower. There is the disadvantage of having a larger than usual dead zone in the middle of the screen but many games make use of this without having sluggish controls (and sometimes whilst only having a gamepad instead of a mouse). However it will get players used to having a deadzone in middle of the screen for Reload mode. It can also hamper accurate aiming as the gun’s angle relative to the player is constantly changing and therefore not lining up with the crosshair. There are several solutions to this. Mafia 2 fixed this by having bullets be emitted from the centre of the screen regardless of where the gun barrel was pointing. Another way to fix it would be to have the mouse move the crosshair and have that dictate the gun’s angle depending on the nearest object it’s overlaid on, rather than the usual method of having where the gun is pointing dictate the position of the crosshair. Pointer controls also compatible with PS3 Move and WiiU controllers.

Spent magazines ejected are actual independent objects that will fall to the floor. If there are some bullets left in it it can be picked up again. Unused bullets in ejected magazines do not magically transfer to the player’s ammo count.

The player's gun is also an independent physical object and can collide with the environment. Moving the mouse cursor to an extreme edge on a long rifle so the barrel is at an angle and then trying to walk through a slim doorway would make the gun collide with the edge, either halting the player if they're walking, or letting the player continue but the gun is automatically dropped if they are running. Having the gun's length being a factor in control would add another dimension to the game's guns.

Quick-change button - like pulling out your sidearm normally except you drop the gun you were holding to pull it out and have to pick it back up afterwards. Holding the quick-change button can charge the throwing of your weapon. If it hits an enemy they go into a flinch animation giving you the extra 2 seconds to aim your sidearm. Impact and trajectory of throw affected by gun's weight.

Extra invert mouse option to invert Reload mode cursor - Remember Crysis?

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I play inverted but when I hit the customise weapon key it would confuse me as the cursor went back to normal. It may be wise to automatically invert the reload mode cursor if inverted mouse is selected. It'll be a bit weird but it feels better than switching between normal and inverted everytime to enter Reload mode.

How to reload each gun could be shown in some shooting gallery/training level you can drop into outside the main game with any gun you select.

Full "2nd person" portrayl. May as well go the whole hog. In games like Chronicles of Riddick if you looked down you saw your body. Should really be standard for any FPS game once the precedent was set.

Floris
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Re: Receiver - I had some ideas for the weapon mechanics

Post by Floris » Mon Jun 18, 2012 1:23 pm

Has anyone had word that they are ganna keep developing Receiver? Cause it's a great idea for perhaps an adventure game. About the mechanics: I got used to them pretty quickly though there is room for inprovement, I've even thought about making a custom controller for the game.

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Korban3
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Re: Receiver - I had some ideas for the weapon mechanics

Post by Korban3 » Mon Jun 18, 2012 6:15 pm

I doubt David will continue development on it. He probably wants to get back to OG.
I'm not sure those controls will feel right for Receiver. Those were for objects in the environment, in Amnesia. They would likely make the gun feel clunky and like an object rather than a tool. Too much work for something like that. I feel like David got a good balance of automation with manual control.

IAmTheMoose
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Re: Receiver - I had some ideas for the weapon mechanics

Post by IAmTheMoose » Tue Jun 19, 2012 10:07 pm

That sounds very intricate and overly complex for a game. In most contexts, the character has some plausible military experience and should be able to reload quickly and confidently without needing to bog down the action. Receiver challenges this and pushes some boundaries, and has what appears to be a solid model for gunplay. It would be very cool to see this same mechanic applied to other games, or other weapons, but what you are suggesting is far too bulky for the average gamer.

temp89
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Re: Receiver - I had some ideas for the weapon mechanics

Post by temp89 » Wed Jun 20, 2012 4:59 am

Well, people don't really seem to be going for it, but here's how the default controls can be improved.

Change most of them to toggles like the Safety button. I press E to eject a clip and would then press E again to reinsert it, but of course that drops it. G should toggle between picking up or dropping. Z should stay as Insert rounds. Holstering the gun in order to insert new rounds is a little too cumbersome. As Z no longer reinserts the mag that leaves it free to insert rounds whilst holding both the mag and pistol. Having to press a button to put down a mag, and then another to pick up a different one is also a little too cumbersome. Should have a Cycle Mag button.

Gameplay improvements - add the ability to Lean. With Z freed up maybe if you have no mags but do have bullets Z will insert a bullet into the chamber (after pulling back on the slide), giving you at least the option of a "bolt-action" pistol.

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Count Roland
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Re: Receiver - I had some ideas for the weapon mechanics

Post by Count Roland » Wed Jun 20, 2012 6:52 am

the only real problem I have with that is g as a toggle between picking up and dropping since frequently I have the magazine out for loading while I pick up bullets. I don't really have a problem with the current control scheme though, I can do everything quite fast now, but I would love to be able to lean.

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Korban3
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Re: Receiver - I had some ideas for the weapon mechanics

Post by Korban3 » Wed Jun 20, 2012 2:05 pm

Also, you can't hold a magazine in one hand, your gun in the other (especially if you were using a rifle or other longarm) and insert rounds into a magazine. Needs one hand for the mag, and one for the bullet. David already made it uber easy for use to insert the rounds.
I'm sorry, but the springs in those bitches are strong. It takes a pretty strong person to use just a few hand muscles to insert rounds, especially that last few. For me, it's a full lower arm torque. I don't operate a handgun often anyways, so I often slip and drop the round or don't get it in quite right and have to adjust it.

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Count Roland
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Re: Receiver - I had some ideas for the weapon mechanics

Post by Count Roland » Wed Jun 20, 2012 9:15 pm

AH! I must have forgotten to read that part, yeah that is a problem.

_12
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Re: Receiver - I had some ideas for the weapon mechanics

Post by _12 » Tue Jun 26, 2012 10:52 am

Make the gun jam once in a while.

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Djemps
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Re: Receiver - I had some ideas for the weapon mechanics

Post by Djemps » Tue Jun 26, 2012 11:09 am

_12 wrote:Make the gun jam once in a while.
Nope.

Nice idea at first glance. But it serves no purpose other than being a pointless annoyance. Considering how many key commands a player needs to juggle, you often essentially end up 'jamming' the gun on your own when changing out a magazine in the heat of a Kill Drone attack.

_12
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Re: Receiver - I had some ideas for the weapon mechanics

Post by _12 » Tue Jun 26, 2012 1:31 pm

Djemps wrote: Nope.
That's the whole point.

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funymunky
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Re: Receiver - I had some ideas for the weapon mechanics

Post by funymunky » Tue Jun 26, 2012 6:34 pm

Korban3 wrote:Also, you can't hold a magazine in one hand, your gun in the other (especially if you were using a rifle or other longarm) and insert rounds into a magazine. Needs one hand for the mag, and one for the bullet. David already made it uber easy for use to insert the rounds.
I'm sorry, but the springs in those bitches are strong. It takes a pretty strong person to use just a few hand muscles to insert rounds, especially that last few. For me, it's a full lower arm torque. I don't operate a handgun often anyways, so I often slip and drop the round or don't get it in quite right and have to adjust it.
You can hold the gun and magazine in the same hand, and use the other to insert bullets. It's really not that hard either, I'm 15 and I have no problem at all putting bullets in a magazine. Then again, I do have quite a bit of gun experience.

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Korban3
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Re: Receiver - I had some ideas for the weapon mechanics

Post by Korban3 » Tue Jun 26, 2012 7:02 pm

No jams.
Killing the player because the game randomly decided to jam your gun when you tried to fire at the flying one coming towards you is frustrating and a dick move, especially in a game where you can die as easily as in Receiver. For games where you can take 40 bullets and not die jams aren't as messed up, but in Receiver that is one of the worst things you could do.
Well, I wouldn't personally risk dropping the gun or magazine because I don't want to holster my gun to load the rounds. If I were just dicking around at the range or something, then yeah I might, but not if my life depends on that gun and magazine being in my hands quickly.

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