1911 thumb safety - dead giveaway

The place to discuss all things Receiver.
User avatar
CATCHMAN
Posts: 14
Joined: Sun Jul 15, 2012 1:00 pm
Location: swe

1911 thumb safety - dead giveaway

Post by CATCHMAN » Wed Sep 12, 2012 11:58 am

I don't like how the 1911 slightly shifts with the thumb safety switched on.

Every time you spawn and ready your weapon, the only thing I'm never fooled by or forget is the thumb safety.
Uncocked hammer? Every once in a while.
Empty chamber? On occasions.
But never do I mistakenly pull the trigger with the thumb safety on.

Of course I don't want the thumb safety removed, but in its current condition it doesn't serve a purpose as it would if you didn't notice it was on - learning your pistol in and out!

Is there a reason it shifts the way it does? Too hard to otherwise notice any change?
I think not, and in the nature of this game I think it benefits in just not giving it away so openly.

If not changed, please make it an option!

Your thoughts?
Thank you for reading.

User avatar
Shadow207B2
Posts: 68
Joined: Fri Sep 07, 2012 12:13 am

Re: 1911 thumb safety - dead giveaway

Post by Shadow207B2 » Wed Sep 12, 2012 12:41 pm

Its for people who might accidentally click, or get startled by a taserbot, and click, giving away his position, or even shooting him/herself in the foot.

User avatar
Rovert
Posts: 167
Joined: Fri Apr 29, 2011 6:52 pm
Location: PA, United States

Re: 1911 thumb safety - dead giveaway

Post by Rovert » Wed Sep 12, 2012 2:46 pm

But tazerbots and turrets can't hear. Also, you can't shoot yourself in the foot. There are no feet.

It's there for realism. I think it shifts because the way the gun is being held when the safety is switched on indicates that your gun isn't in a proper firing position, which would make sense due to the angle, and most people who play the game don't know much about guns (myself included) so a visual indication like that is what's needed for players to say "Oh, my safety's still on." *click, BANG BANG BANG*

User avatar
CATCHMAN
Posts: 14
Joined: Sun Jul 15, 2012 1:00 pm
Location: swe

Re: 1911 thumb safety - dead giveaway

Post by CATCHMAN » Wed Sep 12, 2012 3:48 pm

I completely understand that it's there as a visual indication and would otherwise be much harder to spot than the hammer being cocked or not. Like I said, I don't want the safety feature gone, just altered to give it a purpose other than realism.

But realistically, you don't subconsciously hold your gun differently when the safety is on, whether you know guns or not.*

It doesn't require much to check if the safety is on or off, just squeeze the trigger and await results (to my recollection the safety is on when flipped up). There's also the help guide for last resorts.

I hope somebody sees my point of view, agree or not.

*For the sake of argument, I'm not speaking for everyone.

User avatar
Rovert
Posts: 167
Joined: Fri Apr 29, 2011 6:52 pm
Location: PA, United States

Re: 1911 thumb safety - dead giveaway

Post by Rovert » Wed Sep 12, 2012 4:10 pm

I apologize, I may have missed the point in your first post. I understand what you mean, but I would think that if someone knows that they now have the safety on, they would hold the gun differently because they think that they won't be needing to use it. Why would you continue to aim your pistol when you've put on the safety? The slight angle makes complete sense to me. Your hand is more relaxed and aiming is not a priority. And pulling the trigger to check if the safety is on is a stupid idea. If it isn't, then you've just wasted a bullet.

How would you alter it? Make it MORE obvious? Leave the gun aimed as though it's not on?

User avatar
CATCHMAN
Posts: 14
Joined: Sun Jul 15, 2012 1:00 pm
Location: swe

Re: 1911 thumb safety - dead giveaway

Post by CATCHMAN » Wed Sep 12, 2012 6:05 pm

Rovert wrote:Why would you continue to aim your pistol when you've put on the safety? The slight angle makes complete sense to me. Your hand is more relaxed and aiming is not a priority.
We can walk around this all day without resolving the argument, none of us are experienced in firearms beyond digital simulation, so there's no saying exactly how the gun is held.
Feel free to prove me wrong but I still think it makes it too easy to notice it.
Rovert wrote:And pulling the trigger to check if the safety is on is a stupid idea. If it isn't, then you've just wasted a bullet.
It's not a proposed solution, but if wasting a bullet bothers you, I'll reiterate: there's also the help guide for last resorts.
Besides, you're not supposed to do it every time, you only have to learn it once.

Toggle up = safety on = no shooting.

There, you learned it.
Rovert wrote:How would you alter it? Make it MORE obvious? Leave the gun aimed as though it's not on?
Yes, I would leave it aimed as if though it's not on. I don't see how I'm arguing to make it more obvious.
To me, this increases the difficulty in preparing your weapon when you spawn, as you may overlook toggling the safety off just as you would with a real weapon unless you possess some knowledge of the matter.


I'll be blunt. The way it is now is too easy.

User avatar
Count Roland
Posts: 2936
Joined: Tue Sep 25, 2007 11:15 pm
Location: Galapagos Islands, rodeoin some turtles.
Contact:

Re: 1911 thumb safety - dead giveaway

Post by Count Roland » Wed Sep 12, 2012 8:01 pm

hahah the gun's not the enemy though, it's the killbots.

User avatar
Korban3
Posts: 4146
Joined: Tue May 31, 2011 9:14 pm
Location: 42nd St E, Hell

Re: 1911 thumb safety - dead giveaway

Post by Korban3 » Wed Sep 12, 2012 8:42 pm

Count Roland wrote:hahah the gun's not the enemy though, it's the killbots.
This ^

The gun isn't there to trick you, it's a tool. The fact that he gave a visual indication of the safety doesn't really matter.

User avatar
Shadow207B2
Posts: 68
Joined: Fri Sep 07, 2012 12:13 am

Re: 1911 thumb safety - dead giveaway

Post by Shadow207B2 » Wed Sep 12, 2012 8:43 pm

Rovert wrote:But tazerbots and turrets can't hear. Also, you can't shoot yourself in the foot. There are no feet.

It's there for realism. I think it shifts because the way the gun is being held when the safety is switched on indicates that your gun isn't in a proper firing position, which would make sense due to the angle, and most people who play the game don't know much about guns (myself included) so a visual indication like that is what's needed for players to say "Oh, my safety's still on." *click, BANG BANG BANG*
Actually i have shot myself in the foot alot, its a glitch that some people have, or it may be a feature that is glitched for some people.

User avatar
CATCHMAN
Posts: 14
Joined: Sun Jul 15, 2012 1:00 pm
Location: swe

Re: 1911 thumb safety - dead giveaway

Post by CATCHMAN » Wed Sep 12, 2012 9:42 pm

Korban3 wrote:The gun isn't there to trick you, it's a tool.
I agree, the gun is a tool, but my point isn't in trying to outsmart it or the game, but rather to build on your knowledge with the gun.

Maybe you think I'm being silly, but when you enter a room or approach an enemy without your gun in firing condition, you should be punished for it (unless you manage to dodge or save the situation), because it is entirely your own error (until random jamming is introduced?), but the thumb safety in its current state eliminates this potential factor.
I don't like not being able to screw that up.

Isn't part of the love for the game in its unforgiving nature? Covering several rooms with scarce ammo, scurrying around corners to dodge turrets, only to belly up due to the slightest mistake?

This is something I've been thinking of since I first played Receiver and have always wished to share with other Receiver enthusiasts.
Argue why it's better left alone other than with "it's good as it is".

User avatar
Korban3
Posts: 4146
Joined: Tue May 31, 2011 9:14 pm
Location: 42nd St E, Hell

Re: 1911 thumb safety - dead giveaway

Post by Korban3 » Wed Sep 12, 2012 10:40 pm

I think that sort of thing is taking it too far. That's where it comes in that the safety isn't there to trick you into dying. Just like the hammer and chamber. You can check both of those visually. However, if having the safety on doesn't tilt the gun to the side, then you have almost no visual cue as to whether you're ready to fire. You're only method of checking is to turn the gun sideways, as is already down when the safety is on, or to squeeze and the trigger and see if a round goes off.
I do think it's silly to have the safety trick players. It's not there to prevent you from killing a turret, it's there to stop you from misfiring. I use it half the time because I've misfired twice before and I've been perfectly happy with the safety being clearly obvious in state.
The love of it is in how unforgiving it's handling of mistakes are. Not in tricking the player. I feel like David handled it just fine.

AshEnke
Posts: 14
Joined: Sat Apr 09, 2011 8:48 am

Re: 1911 thumb safety - dead giveaway

Post by AshEnke » Thu Sep 13, 2012 3:49 am

I agree with the safety problem.
In my opinion it should work the same way you can check if there's a round in the chamber :

Let's disable the position shift when safety is on, but add a button that when held shifts the gun away. This way whenever you start the game you have to think about moving the gun to check if the safety is on or off.
Of course for people who actually use the safety during the game, you can still trigger it without having to move the gun.

It's not really a bother, it works well with all the other mecanisms (after a few game it will be as natural as checking the magazine or the chamber) and there's no "huge" gap in realism like there is right now.

User avatar
CATCHMAN
Posts: 14
Joined: Sun Jul 15, 2012 1:00 pm
Location: swe

Re: 1911 thumb safety - dead giveaway

Post by CATCHMAN » Thu Sep 13, 2012 9:50 am

Sort of borrowing the idea AshEnke just mentioned I came up with another solution.
Have the gun shift for a second every time you toggle the safety, then shift back to standard position. Maybe even shift it slightly further than it currently does.
This way it doesn't give away the safety check, but it tilts enough for you to tell a difference.

I wish people would drop the thought of the safety tricking you, that's not at all my point, and would not happen with this change.

bgr
Posts: 23
Joined: Mon Jul 20, 2009 12:29 pm

Re: 1911 thumb safety - dead giveaway

Post by bgr » Thu Sep 13, 2012 11:30 am

I'd like to see safety have some real use in the game, currently it's pretty useless. Even if it means having to check it.

As far as topic goes, I like the idea, and I'd implement it like this: hold V to rotate the gun to check safety, short press to toggle.

User avatar
Coincidence
Posts: 228
Joined: Thu Jun 21, 2012 1:54 am
Location: Inner Sanctum, Brennenburg Castle, Prussia

Re: 1911 thumb safety - dead giveaway

Post by Coincidence » Fri Sep 14, 2012 1:21 am

Why not the safety? I mean, with the Model 10 you can spin the chamber. It doesn't add to gameplay, but it does make the gun feel a little more authentic. I always turn the safety on when I'm not shooting with the 1911. And I always make sure to give the chamber on the Model 10 a spin every once in a while.

Why do I do this?

I'll be damned if I know!

And the gun tilting sideways slightly when the safety is on as a visual indicator is probably better than having to check the damn thing before you set off and then never use it again.

Post Reply