1911 thumb safety - dead giveaway

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AshEnke
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Re: 1911 thumb safety - dead giveaway

Post by AshEnke » Fri Sep 14, 2012 2:45 am

Coincidence wrote:And the gun tilting sideways slightly when the safety is on as a visual indicator is probably better than having to check the damn thing before you set off and then never use it again.
Well I'd prefer that to not checking the damn thing before I set off and then never use it again :D

I think that not always showing the state of the safety is more fun for people like me who never use it because if it's going to be some kind of random state of my gun when I start the game, I'd rather have some gameplay mechanics involved (gameplay mechanics that already exist for almost every other part of the gun), even if it's some gameplay that wil only happen once a game.

But I also think that it would also be much more coherent with the rest of Receiver's design for players who use the safety during the game.
Receiver is designed around two things : pure mechanical reflexes (after a few games every Receiver players get some kind of built-in-brain macros that activate when they have to perform a task like reloading a gun or checking the chamber) and gun awareness (as I have no indication of the number of bullets left in my magazine, I tend to subconsciously count every bullet I shoot and how many I have left).

The safety as it works right now has absolutely no use (which isn't a problem : it HAS to be there because it's an important part of a gun and for roleplay purposes), needs no reflexes, and is a no-brainer.

My solution may sound like its overly complicated for such a "roleplay" feature, but it really isn't and it feels completely adequate to the design behind Receiver.

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Count Roland
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Re: 1911 thumb safety - dead giveaway

Post by Count Roland » Fri Sep 14, 2012 5:42 pm

it has a use though, it prevents misfires, it's fairly easy to just waste a shot if you get startled in real life or something, and if you're running or jumping that can be disastrous, I mean granted it's functionality is limited, but it's not entirely useless.

AshEnke
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Re: 1911 thumb safety - dead giveaway

Post by AshEnke » Fri Sep 14, 2012 5:47 pm

The difference is, if I get startled in real life that maybe anything that I shouldn't shoot at.
In Receiver if I get startled it's because I have a tazbot rushing my way, no other reason :)

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Shadow207B2
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Re: 1911 thumb safety - dead giveaway

Post by Shadow207B2 » Fri Sep 14, 2012 7:08 pm

Coincidence wrote:Why not the safety? I mean, with the Model 10 you can spin the chamber. It doesn't add to gameplay, but it does make the gun feel a little more authentic. I always turn the safety on when I'm not shooting with the 1911. And I always make sure to give the chamber on the Model 10 a spin every once in a while.

Why do I do this?

I'll be damned if I know!

And the gun tilting sideways slightly when the safety is on as a visual indicator is probably better than having to check the damn thing before you set off and then never use it again.
This, 1 thousand times.
Also, put one bullet in the revolver, spin it, walk up behind a turret, and fire, RUSSIAN ROULETTE: RECEIVER STYLE

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Count Roland
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Re: 1911 thumb safety - dead giveaway

Post by Count Roland » Sat Sep 15, 2012 6:27 pm

I wasn't making a comparison, I meant like while playing the game, you the human at the controls are startled by something that is not a part of the game, but rather a part of real life.

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CATCHMAN
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Re: 1911 thumb safety - dead giveaway

Post by CATCHMAN » Sat Sep 15, 2012 11:52 pm

Here is a crude depiction of what the gun might look like untilted.

Image
It's more subtle than the tilt as a visual indication, but still clear enough to tell a difference.
Keep in mind there's a slight animation between the two so you can tell the transition.

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Endorgan
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Re: 1911 thumb safety - dead giveaway

Post by Endorgan » Sun Sep 16, 2012 4:09 pm

I find the gun tilt aesthetically pleasing. While I guess I get what you're trying to say, there's already enough things to prevent you from firing your weapon. I would have to guess a lot of people see the gun tilted, safety off, and just roll.
I would harken a guess that the players who have no need for the help menu would go through the start procedures and end up dying to something because it wasn't obvious that the safety, that they don't use, was on.
And from a strictly roleplay point of view, I would guess that a person familiar with firearms would hold their weapon differently when the safety is on, perhaps more relaxed, hence the tilt effect.

commandar
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Re: 1911 thumb safety - dead giveaway

Post by commandar » Tue Sep 18, 2012 7:33 pm

CATCHMAN wrote:But realistically, you don't subconsciously hold your gun differently when the safety is on, whether you know guns or not.*
You're right. Realistically, you consciously hold the gun differently when the safety is engaged.

The right hand thumb rides on top of the thumb safety of a 1911 when held in a normal firing grip, making disengaging it a natural part of gripping the gun to fire. The safety gets disengaged anyway as part of pushing the gun out to fire.

I actually rather like how the system works now, it provides a decent enough analogue to how you'd actually use the gun.

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berq
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Re: 1911 thumb safety - dead giveaway

Post by berq » Fri Sep 21, 2012 2:24 pm

Argue why it's better left alone other than with "it's good as it is".
Here's my take as someone who owns a 1911 and has law enforcement tactical firearms training:

When I'm target shooting, the safety's ALWAYS on until I've started to aim, so I'm ALWAYS mentally aware of its state without any physical checks. In an active threat situation, the safety comes off and stays off until the threat is eliminated, but my finger stays outside the trigger guard until I've acquired my target and am ready to shoot. But say I'd just picked up a 1911 in a random state during a threat situation, I could check the safety by feel alone. Still, given enough light, I'd probably inspect it visually as well... by tilting it slightly to the side.

So how does this translate to a video game? Since there's no possibility of shooting yourself or an innocent party in Receiver, engaging the safety is a liability overall. The odds it'll keep you from shooting a speeding hover-drone in time are FAR greater than the odds it'll keep you from running out of ammo due to misfires. If you're that twitchy, your best bet might be to discuss some anti-anxiety meds with your doctor... or just have a couple beers before you play. As far as DISengaging the safety goes, since you can't check its state by touch, the most "realistic" approach in my experience is to tilt the gun to the side for a visual check.

All that aside, on my list of Receiver complaints, being too easy is dead last. :mrgreen:

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Coincidence
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Re: 1911 thumb safety - dead giveaway

Post by Coincidence » Fri Sep 21, 2012 6:09 pm

What if the gun didn't automatically tilt to the side to reveal the safety, but instead we had a key mapped that let the player tilt the gun to the side themselves to check. The player could use the help system to learn when the safety is on and off until they know the gun better and can tell entirely on their own.

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Korban3
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Re: 1911 thumb safety - dead giveaway

Post by Korban3 » Sat Sep 22, 2012 8:08 pm

You want another key control in Receiver? I'd rather keep it simpler, as is.

castiglione
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Re: 1911 thumb safety - dead giveaway

Post by castiglione » Sun Oct 14, 2012 12:48 am

There's another problem with the thumb safety.

On a 1911A, if the safety is on, it is physically impossible to rack the slide since the safety physically blocks the slide from moving.

Causeless
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Re: 1911 thumb safety - dead giveaway

Post by Causeless » Tue Oct 16, 2012 8:56 am

Why does everyone want this changed? How would it make the game more fun in any way whatsoever? It just complicates things...

Tiger Walts
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Re: 1911 thumb safety - dead giveaway

Post by Tiger Walts » Sat Mar 09, 2013 10:27 pm

The tilted 1911 when the safety is on is a giveaway. There are a number of possible solutions I can think of:
  1. When in aim mode the gun is never tilted as it is with the safety on. When not in aim mode, the gun is always tilted so that the safety can be inspected by looking down.
  • 2 buttons for manipulating the safety, one always activates it, one always releases it.
  • Make activating the safety a long press of V. A tap of V will always deactivate it.
  • Aiming the weapon will always release the safety.
  • Pressing V while aiming releases the safety. Pressing V when not aiming activates the safety.
I play in a manner that takes into account gun safety, even though it is not vital with regard to the game. If I need to holster a weapon (Either to fill magazines or to get a little extra agility when jumping), then I will make it as safe as possible without compromising the ability to fire again quickly. The revolver gets de-cocked if it already happens to be; the 1911 has the safety engaged, and the Glock... well the Glock just goes right in.

I do this because, who knows, future versions of Receiver may implement random discharges for certain conditions. Such as jumping off stairs or platforms or bumping into walls when sprinting. There is a chance of being hit by a ricochet already, just try aiming straight down at the ground and firing. I also cock the revolver before I take a shot if I can (because a future update may also make a double action pull longer and less accurate), that means there are times where I cock it and then decide not to take the shot. That's not a safe weapon to be carrying when engaged in a little bit of parkour. Ultimately, I think that it's just good practice.

cikame
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Re: 1911 thumb safety - dead giveaway

Post by cikame » Sun Mar 10, 2013 6:52 am

I do like the game trying to trick me, testing my preparation routine, but the visual difference without turning the gun is so minor it would be silly.
"Is the safety on? i'll move it a few times to find out, up, down, up, down, um, is up off or is down off? i'll fire a bullet to find out". That's not exactly elegant.

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