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Re: Weapon Additions - Updated Oct. 21st

Posted: Sat Nov 09, 2013 9:15 pm
by anAngryHamster
Finally, the flashlight plague is over. Yeah, they tend to fall through the floor when you throw them but it hardly matters when you were just getting rid of them anyways.

And may I suggest a new feature on the weapon selection menu. Would it be possible to add a checkmark box next to each gun that determines if they can be obtained through the random option? It may not seem like a big deal but if Receiver modding takes off a customizable pool would a great feature.

Re: Weapon Additions - Updated Oct. 21st

Posted: Sat Nov 09, 2013 10:22 pm
by jackthearcher
anAngryHamster wrote: And may I suggest a new feature on the weapon selection menu. Would it be possible to add a checkmark box next to each gun that determines if they can be obtained through the random option? It may not seem like a big deal but if Receiver modding takes off a customizable pool would a great feature.
I do like that feature idea, would be kind of nice.

On another note I'm sure it'd be easy to adjust the fall damage to something a bit more realistic, I've died several times falling off a low area of stairs. If it's not easy then don't worry about it. Another thing is the flashlight and the Thompson can be held at the same time which doesn't seem too realistic to me. So that might be something else to look into. The final noticeable bug is the flashlight going through the floor which I've accidentally done several times though this is a pretty minor bug.

Re: Weapon Additions - Updated Oct. 21st

Posted: Sun Nov 10, 2013 12:00 am
by Josh707
jackthearcher wrote:
anAngryHamster wrote: And may I suggest a new feature on the weapon selection menu. Would it be possible to add a checkmark box next to each gun that determines if they can be obtained through the random option? It may not seem like a big deal but if Receiver modding takes off a customizable pool would a great feature.
I do like that feature idea, would be kind of nice.

On another note I'm sure it'd be easy to adjust the fall damage to something a bit more realistic, I've died several times falling off a low area of stairs. If it's not easy then don't worry about it. Another thing is the flashlight and the Thompson can be held at the same time which doesn't seem too realistic to me. So that might be something else to look into. The final noticeable bug is the flashlight going through the floor which I've accidentally done several times though this is a pretty minor bug.
The check mark option is a good idea, I can try to add that. I agree with the fall damage, I haven't died too much from falling but sometimes it does seem a little unrealistic.
I made a staircase of cubes and walked off each one to see how high roughly you needed to be to die, and it was a little surprising, the lowest height is slightly higher than those sun blocking structures on the range level.
[+] Image
Image
Then I checked out the code, and it turns out dying from falling depends on your velocity rather than the fall distance, if your vertical velocity is lower than -8 you die. I can change that really easily, so I'll just slightly increase it and do some testing.
The flashlight problem can be fixed a few ways, making the collider slightly bigger is an easy fix. I can increase the rigidbody's drag a little so it doesn't fall so fast, and tweak some physics options as well.

Re: Weapon Additions - Updated Oct. 21st

Posted: Wed Nov 13, 2013 8:05 pm
by lamekupo
Josh707 wrote: I think it would turn out great using a for loop, I can have a random number generated to break the loop, making it sometimes require more than one single push to get all the rounds inside. Then the bolt toggling function can simply check if there's a clip inserted to prevent it from moving until you take it out.
I hadn't even imagined that! That's quite a great idea; it really adds to the micromanagement gameplay. A fair amount of shooters today have a firearm malfunction mechanic, but now that I think about it, having a "fumble" mechanic makes a lot more sense, realistically. I'd definitely like to see a bit more of this kind of thing.

Also, I guess it's not all that important seeing as the frequency with which we see it, but the ending sequence seems to be broken. I beat the game last night for the second time, and the screen proceeded to fade to white and just hang there. Just thought I'd report it.

Re: Weapon Additions - Updated Oct. 21st

Posted: Thu Nov 14, 2013 4:26 pm
by Davidos
Any chance there'll be the possibility of picking up (one) extra weapon(s) as secondaries?

I like the addition of spare magazines, but I'd love the idea of having to manage different ammo types and magazines for different weapons.

Is the source code available somewhere?

Re: Weapon Additions - Updated Oct. 21st

Posted: Thu Nov 14, 2013 7:25 pm
by Josh707
lamekupo wrote:-snip-
Yeah I thought it was a good idea too, I've watched a few videos of people using stripper clips and they always seem to have a hard time pushing all the rounds in at once. It wouldn't feel as realistic if they just slid in perfectly each time. I'm not sure how to handle the audio for that though, it would sound really weird if the round insertion clip played like 5 times really fast.

I wasn't aware of the end being broken, I had to disable the main menu fading to be able to go back to it so that might be the problem. I'll have to check that out, it's supposed to load a new scene with all the GUI stuff. I didn't want to break any game mechanics with the stuff I added. Thanks for pointing it out!
Davidos wrote:-snip-
I'm not sure about multiple weapons, someone else has accomplished it but I honestly don't feel like trying to implement anything too complex now that I've started my own project, and I much prefer C# over Javascript. Although it would be nice, I don't think I will try to add it, but there is a slight chance if I get in the mood at some point.

And yes, Wolfire made the Unity project available here!

Re: Weapon Additions - Updated Oct. 21st

Posted: Thu Nov 14, 2013 7:44 pm
by Davidos
Well, I was more specifically speaking of the version with your additions, so I'm capable of implementing the code along with your weaponry and see if I can make it spawn both your weapons and the default ones depending on what the player is carrying (e.g. Different weapons but only depending on what the player is carrying at the time.)


I also noticed the ending being broken, but figured this was because I'm running on the steam-base version instead, fortunately it's still possible to alt-f4.


As for the sounds for the stripper clip, why not have a random pre-determined chance of the strip failing and playing the appropriate sound?
Say, a 1/5 chance that that all of the rounds go in at the first try, playing the appropriate sound and adding the necessary delay to the next following allowed keypress, same for a 4/5 chance that it only loads a single (or two) rounds at once with the appropriate sounds.

Script-wise it might be a pain to go for all the separate scenarios, but gameplay wise the sound 'd be seamless and less immersion breaking than 5 (differently pitched) click noises. Then again, it might be a bit 'too' much of a pain.


On a side note, a few bugs and oversights I noticed:
I noticed a bug with the Thompson, despite not being finished, where if you hold down F, fire and release as you would with a m1911/Tokarev, the weapon ceases to fire.

The Tokarev actually comes with a standard 8 round magazine, instead of a 7 round. They look a lot like the m1911 magazines, I never understood the use of square holes on the m1911 mags and not on the glock mags, though... as far as I can remember, these are always round.

Now that I think about it, sometimes on spawn, the TT will have a round in the chamber (T+R), but it fails to fire. You'll have to charge it an additional time to get it to eject and load a working round into the chamber, however you can still pick up the functioning discarded round.

The shooting range map has a tendency to launch you 50 foot up in the air if you run back and forth over the little dirtpile-line, but I'm guessing this is more of an engine flaw than anything (The movement mechanics in this game are seriously wonky...)


And of course, some suggestions:
By the way, somebody probably already brought this up before, but you probably already noticed that all (pistol) weapons have the ability to lock the slide while the magazine is full (hold R, then hold T, then release R). Why not use this animation in a 1/30 chance to cause a simulated FTE (Failure to Eject) jam?

Ever thought of adding a sawed-off to the game? Something simple yet hard to wield.

Re: Weapon Additions - Updated Oct. 21st

Posted: Thu Nov 14, 2013 11:30 pm
by Josh707
Davidos wrote:Well, I was more specifically speaking of the version with your additions, so I'm capable of implementing the code along with your weaponry and see if I can make it spawn both your weapons and the default ones depending on what the player is carrying (e.g. Different weapons but only depending on what the player is carrying at the time.)
Oh haha, yeah I have the project files in the trash bin that I uploaded October 22nd - I believe it's the most recent update. Luckily it wasn't fully deleted, so here!
I also noticed the ending being broken, but figured this was because I'm running on the steam-base version instead, fortunately it's still possible to alt-f4.
Hmm.. I'll definitely get around to fixing that, I little while ago I did complete the game with the changes I made and it did in fact finish normally without hanging or crashing. That was before I tried adding a main menu button and had to disable the fading though. I've never actually looked at the win scene so it might be using the same splash screen script that the main menu uses - when you click each picture they do in fact fade in and out just like the menu.
As for the sounds for the stripper clip, why not have a random pre-determined chance of the strip failing and playing the appropriate sound?
Say, a 1/5 chance that that all of the rounds go in at the first try, playing the appropriate sound and adding the necessary delay to the next following allowed keypress, same for a 4/5 chance that it only loads a single (or two) rounds at once with the appropriate sounds.

Script-wise it might be a pain to go for all the separate scenarios, but gameplay wise the sound 'd be seamless and less immersion breaking than 5 (differently pitched) click noises. Then again, it might be a bit 'too' much of a pain.
That's a good idea, rather than just playing the sound when each bullet is inserted in a loop, just calculate the amount of rounds that will go in and just play a single audio clip accordingly. That would turn out pretty good I think.
On a side note, a few bugs and oversights I noticed:
I noticed a bug with the Thompson, despite not being finished, where if you hold down F, fire and release as you would with a m1911/Tokarev, the weapon ceases to fire.

The Tokarev actually comes with a standard 8 round magazine, instead of a 7 round. They look a lot like the m1911 magazines, I never understood the use of square holes on the m1911 mags and not on the glock mags, though... as far as I can remember, these are always round.

Now that I think about it, sometimes on spawn, the TT will have a round in the chamber (T+R), but it fails to fire. You'll have to charge it an additional time to get it to eject and load a working round into the chamber, however you can still pick up the functioning discarded round.

The shooting range map has a tendency to launch you 50 foot up in the air if you run back and forth over the little dirtpile-line, but I'm guessing this is more of an engine flaw than anything (The movement mechanics in this game are seriously wonky...)
The Thompson has a lot of bugs haha, I have missed a few things so that's probably why it lets you manually decock the internal hammer. I've been trying to write a bolt-lock that is always engaged unless the trigger is held so the bolt stays back once you pull it, but it turned out quite a mess in my first attempt. I'm rewriting it though, so it should work as expected eventually.

I noticed that failure to fire problem in the TT-33 too, I have no idea what causes it as it's using the exact same code as the 1911, setting it's gun type to automatic and action type to single makes it operate the same. It has all the same parts and stuff so I have no idea what causes it, I've never noticed the problem in the other guns. Actually I'll have to double check that there isn't an extra renderer attached to one of the empty objects used for positioning, I had all the empty's for the bullet positions temporarily use the bullets mesh so I could position everything properly, and may have forgotten to remove one.

For the TT-33 magazine, someone pointed that out earlier and I've changed it in the current project I have so it will hold 8 rounds in the next update I post. If you want it earlier, you can find the TT-33's magazine prefab in the objects folder and just increase the mag scripts bullets parameter by one, and makes sure to make another empty child object named round_8 for the position. I'm not sure about the square holes, it could just be for the art style or maybe some modelling problems. I've added holes to the TT-33's magazine though, they're too small right now but once it looks good I'll be replacing the non-holy magazine with it.

The launching is actually something that I chose to leave in just for "shits" I guess you could say, it just happens when you walk into the back of the one sided plane that is rendering a camera for the targets. It's only temporary until I get a model of a television or something similar that would work best for zooming up on the targets.

And of course, some suggestions:
By the way, somebody probably already brought this up before, but you probably already noticed that all (pistol) weapons have the ability to lock the slide while the magazine is full (hold R, then hold T, then release R). Why not use this animation in a 1/30 chance to cause a simulated FTE (Failure to Eject) jam?

Ever thought of adding a sawed-off to the game? Something simple yet hard to wield.
I've been thinking about adding jams or malfunctions for a long time now, I haven't come up with a good way to implement them while looking good. I'd have to think about jams for a while before trying to add them, and the fact that Receiver is 100% Javascript discourages me from trying anything like that.

I have in fact thought about a sawed-off! A break-action shotgun would be pretty awesome and very simple to write, the concept of inserting rounds into different "chambers" is already written for the revolver. I can see it resulting in a lot of deaths, but it would be fun to use regardless.

Re: Weapon Additions - Updated Oct. 21st

Posted: Fri Nov 15, 2013 12:46 am
by lamekupo
Davidos wrote:Now that I think about it, sometimes on spawn, the TT will have a round in the chamber (T+R), but it fails to fire. You'll have to charge it an additional time to get it to eject and load a working round into the chamber, however you can still pick up the functioning discarded round.
I don't mean to ask the obvious, but have tried cocking the hammer? I only ask because I haven't yet to run into that bug you mentioned with the TT-33, but I used to have similar troubles with the M1911, where I would spawn with a round in the chamber, but the hammer uncocked. I figured Wolfire made it that way to add some gameplay considerations to the SAO control scheme. I play on a very low resolution, (running on a crappy integrated graphics card) and it took me a good few hours of playing before I could finally recognize what a cocked hammer looked like without holstering the gun.

EDIT: I did some test runs in an attempt to reproduce that bug, but thus far, each time there was a round in the chamber but the TT didn't fire, it was because the hammer wasn't cocked. However, that said, I may have caught something else: When you spawn with the slide locked back, hitting the slide release seems to chamber a round, but leave the hammer uncocked. I think I remember noticing this on the M1911 a few months back as well, so I think it's a problem with Wolfire's code.

EDIT EDIT: Did some more testing, and yeah, spawning with the slide locked back definitely causes some issues... most of the time. There seems to be 2 cases:

1) the slide is locked back, and looking into the breech (by holstering the gun) shows no round about to be chambered, even though a check of the mag reveals rounds in it. This seems to always fail to chamber a round.

2) the slide is locked back, but looking into the breech shows a round. This case sometimes works flawlessly, but roughly half the time, fails to cock the hammer. It seems to always chamber a round though.

My guess is that when the game randomly generates the states of each part (cocked/uncocked, slide locked back/in battery), it doesn't associate a locked slide with a cocked hammer. Instead, the hammer is only cocked when the slide is pulled back. Since you spawn with the slide back all the way, this never happens.

The times where the hammer was successfully cocked after releasing the slide are probably a result of the hammer being set to cocked by the random number generator - separately from the state of the slide.
Josh707 wrote:I have in fact thought about a sawed-off! A break-action shotgun would be pretty awesome and very simple to write, the concept of inserting rounds into different "chambers" is already written for the revolver. I can see it resulting in a lot of deaths, but it would be fun to use regardless.
Strangely enough, a double barrel actually sounds more appealing to me for fighting the current enemy set. Since turrets are stationary and flying drones tend to kill you before you get more than a few shots off, magazine capacity isn't much of an issue for me when it comes to shotguns.

It may just be the way I play the game, but I have the most trouble fighting flying drones using the R870. The problem is that I miss the first shot 50% of the time, but I'm too slow with the pump handle to get in another shot. It does exceedingly well against turrets though.

While I'm spouting off my impressions of the guns you've added, I've found the Thompson great at taking out flying drones. Having full auto makes it similar in practice to the Glock, but I can start bursting at a much farther range with it thanks to the reduced recoil. I would normally wait until the last second to fire the Glock on full auto, but I can do it from a much safer distance with the Thompson.

That said, I dread having to take out turrets with it, mainly because of the sights. It may just be my low resolution, but aiming with that tiny diopter aperture sight is very tough. Most of my vision is blocked and I can hardly place shots on turrets properly. Combining that with the lack of a semi auto fire mode, I can end up wasting several times the ammo I use on turrets with any other gun.

Just my two cents though. It's nice that each gun has a bit of a weakness in one or more aspects.

Re: Weapon Additions - Updated Oct. 21st

Posted: Fri Nov 15, 2013 9:50 am
by Davidos
Yes, of course, it never occurred to me now but the problem happens after you lock the slide with a round chambered on spawn. Good call, I should have mentioned that.


As for the double barrel, consider the implications of:
-Aiming with either an over-and-under or a side-by-side configuration.
-The addition of an eject state (e.g. popping out empty shells followed by tilting the weapon on opening)
-The chance of that failing and having to manually remove shells
-Switch-trigger to shift which barrel should fire first



I was also wondering, is it potentially possible to change the way mouse-aiming works?
I'm having the hardest difficulty turning around at high speeds while also having to aim very carefully in sighted mode, most games have these two variables separated when they include a free-aim mechanism. Nothing more frustrating than either very slowly turning around as if you were in a wheelchair than throwing your weapon across the place when you do finally get your sights up...


As mentioned in the previous post, speaking of 2 handed weaponry, why not have the weapon sway drastically lowered, normally you'd be pressing the stock into your shoulder and the weapon would hardly bounce at all if you're walking at such a slow pace (even if you're unadept in wielding submachine weaponry)

Is it possible to have the 'gun away from face' distance for two handed weapons to be a lot closer to the face, even with this setting out on max? Right now it looks like the shotgun and Thompson are being held with one hand (Especially the Thompson, being able to wield a flashlight and all that?



I was going to say, if you're looking for sounds or models, I'm pretty good at making models/sounds from scratch, so give me a call if you feel like animating the separate parts! No questions asked, no credits required and no money needed.

Re: Weapon Additions - Updated Oct. 21st

Posted: Fri Nov 15, 2013 2:11 pm
by jaaajay
This may be a bit of a stupid question but could someone tell me how to install this mod? I know it says it but I'm not good with files and such

Re: Weapon Additions - Updated Oct. 21st

Posted: Fri Nov 15, 2013 3:15 pm
by Davidos
If you are running the steam version, goto:
*:\*****\steam\steamapps\common\Receiver

* being wherever you installed your steam.

If not, just go down into your receiver install folder, it should look something like this:
http://puu.sh/5jh0P.png

Download the OP's original files, opening them with WinRAR.

Then select all of these files and drag them into your receiver folder.

Do this for the second folder as well.


If you are running on steam, be sure to deactivate the automated update service

http://puu.sh/5jh5S.png


EDIT:

I would really like to bring to your attention that the 7.62 x 25 round is severely underperforming in the mod. The performance is more like the .357 SIG in most aspects, low weight, light recoil, high velocity and relatively high piercing round, it should make swiss cheese out of any type of steel alloyed armour these targets have. One of the reasons they stepped away from this design is that the round overpenetrated targets way too often, doing minimal damage to tissue. Take a minute and wonder what that'd do to people wearing body armour, let alone a circuit board inside of a machine.

Right now I have to shoot a target 4 times in the same area for it to not bounce off and go through.


Same can really be said of the Thompson performance at longer ranges, but considering it's an antique SMG I can't really say much about it. It rather pales in comparison to the damage output and accuracy of the M1911 firing the same rounds in the game.

In this game, you can't really get away with fast-firing or bursting at enemies at longer ranges, doing it up close is usually suicide.


Oh, also, my second most favourite thing to do in this mod is shooting while ghostloading
http://puu.sh/5jtXe.jpg

Edit 2:

Considering you already implemented loading shells through the port on your first shell, why not implement ghostloading completely?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pUHPwB-8JKg

Re: Weapon Additions - Updated Oct. 21st

Posted: Fri Nov 15, 2013 8:35 pm
by Josh707
lamekupo wrote:*Stuff about slide and hammer spawning*
Hmm... I don't think it's just the hammer being uncocked, there's been a few times that I've used T+R to look in the chamber and there's a round, but it doesn't fire regardless of how many times I cock the hammer and fire again. I'll have to see if I can reproduce it, maybe using what Davidos said.

I think it's fairly simple to force the hammer to be cocked if you spawn with the slide locked open, I've forced it for the Remington if it spawns with a round in the chamber, although it's kind of useless without the press check. I can try to make it force a round to be half-loaded or whatever you call it if it's possible.
lamekupo wrote:Strangely enough, a double barrel actually sounds more appealing to me for fighting the current enemy set. Since turrets are stationary and flying drones tend to kill you before you get more than a few shots off, magazine capacity isn't much of an issue for me when it comes to shotguns.

It may just be the way I play the game, but I have the most trouble fighting flying drones using the R870. The problem is that I miss the first shot 50% of the time, but I'm too slow with the pump handle to get in another shot. It does exceedingly well against turrets though.

While I'm spouting off my impressions of the guns you've added, I've found the Thompson great at taking out flying drones. Having full auto makes it similar in practice to the Glock, but I can start bursting at a much farther range with it thanks to the reduced recoil. I would normally wait until the last second to fire the Glock on full auto, but I can do it from a much safer distance with the Thompson.

That said, I dread having to take out turrets with it, mainly because of the sights. It may just be my low resolution, but aiming with that tiny diopter aperture sight is very tough. Most of my vision is blocked and I can hardly place shots on turrets properly. Combining that with the lack of a semi auto fire mode, I can end up wasting several times the ammo I use on turrets with any other gun.

Just my two cents though. It's nice that each gun has a bit of a weakness in one or more aspects.
Haha that's weird, I find the 870 to be exceptionally good at taking out multiple drones. I usually hide and take pot shots, but when they've spotted me it seems to do a good job of taking them out quickly. I've been using it a lot though. I do find it strange that you would prefer a double barrel for these situations, but to each his own!
The Thompson's action type is 99% scripted now so it operates properly, I'm polishing up the recoil and materials now. I can have it toggle between semi and full auto, but you can't even see the fire selector so I'm not sure what to do with that, I've kept it with safe/full auto for now. The recoil right now is roughly where it will be, but it just doesn't quite feel right to me, part of that might be because of the lack of high quality gun shot audio that suits the Thompson.

I agree with you about the sight, I play on a 1440x900 monitor and it's really damn hard for me to hit anything at a distance without taking a good 5-10 seconds to get it lined up properly. I'm not sure if it was part of the problem before, but I took the time to properly align the front and rear sights on it (TT-33 as well) so that the bullet isn't firing at an angle slightly, so it should be more accurate, even if just barely.
Davidos wrote:As for the double barrel, consider the implications of:
-Aiming with either an over-and-under or a side-by-side configuration.
-The addition of an eject state (e.g. popping out empty shells followed by tilting the weapon on opening)
-The chance of that failing and having to manually remove shells
-Switch-trigger to shift which barrel should fire first
Good points! If I ever get a good model I can use then I'm going to try to make it as realistic as possible, like with the rest. I can pretty easily make each chamber fire the bullet out of each barrel so that you have to readjust your aim accordingly, the ejection would be fairly similar to the revolvers 'yolk' movement. You could open the action and have some internal springs push them out, and if those fail to get a shell out then you can either pull it out or tilt the gun and shake it like with the extractor rod.
Davidos wrote:I was also wondering, is it potentially possible to change the way mouse-aiming works?
I'm having the hardest difficulty turning around at high speeds while also having to aim very carefully in sighted mode, most games have these two variables separated when they include a free-aim mechanism. Nothing more frustrating than either very slowly turning around as if you were in a wheelchair than throwing your weapon across the place when you do finally get your sights up...
I'm not exactly sure what you mean by this, just different sensitivities for aiming and not aiming? It'd be pretty simple to write. If that's what you mean then I can give it a go, I'm uploading the next update a little later today after I finish a few things. I'm not sure if it was you who asked but I've pretty much got the random selection check boxes working. If sensitivity isn't what you mean please elaborate!
Davidos wrote:As mentioned in the previous post, speaking of 2 handed weaponry, why not have the weapon sway drastically lowered, normally you'd be pressing the stock into your shoulder and the weapon would hardly bounce at all if you're walking at such a slow pace (even if you're unadept in wielding submachine weaponry)
Another good point, I never even thought about the sway while walking, but now that you mention it it looks really weird how it is. I'll try to reduce it for the two handed weapons.
Davidos wrote:Is it possible to have the 'gun away from face' distance for two handed weapons to be a lot closer to the face, even with this setting out on max? Right now it looks like the shotgun and Thompson are being held with one hand (Especially the Thompson, being able to wield a flashlight and all that?
Yeah that's pretty simple too, I can manually adjust the weapon prefabs so that they're closer/further by default. I'll adjust them to the best position I can find, but I had to keep them a little far away because the stock was clipping through the camera, and you could see inside the gun. Not sure how I can fix that, I've already reduced the cameras near clip planes more than I should have to but I'll mess around with it.
Davidos wrote:I was going to say, if you're looking for sounds or models, I'm pretty good at making models/sounds from scratch, so give me a call if you feel like animating the separate parts! No questions asked, no credits required and no money needed.
Haha okay! That would actually be great, I kind of feel bad asking but there are a couple sounds that would make the custom guns sound a little better. I'd understand if it would be difficult to make some, but any sound that would resemble the Thompson's bolt being pulled back, another releasing it from being fully back to hitting the bolt lock, and finally the bolt being released, so basically a sound of it sliding very fast and hitting whatever stops it. If you can't manage to record/make some sounds like this don't worry about it. I've had to resort to ripping audio from other games, the TT-33 you might recognize from Red Orchestra 2.

As for models, honestly if you have any model that you would like to see put in the game then feel free to suggest it and send it over. The only thing that holds me back from adding stuff is the lack of decent models. I'm okay with modelling, I can make some decent quality models and modify existing ones, but I really dislike modelling, almost hate it. Programming is where it's at! I can't texture models either, you might have noticed but that's why the custom weapons don't look very good, they're just using materials with one solid color and specularity.
Davidos wrote:EDIT: I would really like to bring to your attention that the 7.62 x 25 round is severely underperforming in the mod. The performance is more like the .357 SIG in most aspects, low weight, light recoil, high velocity and relatively high piercing round, it should make swiss cheese out of any type of steel alloyed armour these targets have. One of the reasons they stepped away from this design is that the round overpenetrated targets way too often, doing minimal damage to tissue. Take a minute and wonder what that'd do to people wearing body armour, let alone a circuit board inside of a machine.

Right now I have to shoot a target 4 times in the same area for it to not bounce off and go through.
I did notice that too, part of it is the gunshot audio but it feels like a pellet gun to me. The only property of bullets that can be changed to affect overall damage is the muzzle velocity - I looked up the velocity for the TT-33 and it's a whopping 480 m/s compared to the 1911's 251m/s, I changed it like with the other guns but now the bullet seems to travel a little too fast. I'm not too familiar with different calibers and how fast they travel so if it's supposed to be that fast, please let me know. Unity measures distance by meters, when you fire the bullet is given a velocity of the weapons forward vector direction multiplied by the speed, which used to be default 251 for all weapons. I'm not sure if that's muzzle velocity but you can set it's initial velocity precisely, should the TT-33's bullet velocity be 480m/s?

Davidos wrote:Same can really be said of the Thompson performance at longer ranges, but considering it's an antique SMG I can't really say much about it. It rather pales in comparison to the damage output and accuracy of the M1911 firing the same rounds in the game.

In this game, you can't really get away with fast-firing or bursting at enemies at longer ranges, doing it up close is usually suicide.
Yeah, the Thompson is using the same caliber round as the 1911 so I figured it should have the same velocity, but I'll look it up and see if the barrel length or something else makes a difference.

I found that too, I hate that you can't fire rapidly at a target a few feet away and have a realistic shot grouping, the recoil seems to rotate the gun too much. I didn't want to touch the original guns though, I figured someone with Wolfire had some experience with guns so they tried to find realistic values. I think I'm going to slightly tweak the recoil for each gun, give them slightly less rotational recoil and slightly more of the recoil that pushes it around the aiming zone - It just doesn't seem right having to wait a full second to be able to hit near your last shot.

However - If you don't want the recoil changed let me know, I can always have multiple versions with different values.


Davidos wrote:Oh, also, my second most favourite thing to do in this mod is shooting while ghostloading
http://puu.sh/5jtXe.jpg

Edit 2:

Considering you already implemented loading shells through the port on your first shell, why not implement ghostloading completely?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pUHPwB-8JKg
Hmm... That does seem like a useful concept but it would hard to script, right now the magazines and tubes have a set amount of rounds and positions for those rounds, so I can't really fit another round in there without letting you just load a round into it. I could have another position set specifically for that purpose, but I'm going to finish scripting some other things before I try anything like this.


Whew... Am I done typing yet? Everything's written in a text file now so I'll be sure not to miss anything that was suggested.

Edit: One last thing, I took the time to beat the game after hearing that it was hanging on that white screen, and everything worked perfectly for me :\ It turns out there's a separate slideshow script for that scene so the main menu has nothing to do with it. I think it just might have to do with the Steam version but I really don't know!

Re: Weapon Additions - Updated Oct. 21st

Posted: Sat Nov 16, 2013 6:43 pm
by lamekupo
Josh707 wrote:-bugs, etc.-
Eh, in all honesty, if it ends up being too complicated, it's definitely something that I can live with. I always check my weapon after spawning and make sure everything's in working order, so it doesn't really affect me.

I'd rather see you continue working on this great mod rather than fixing small bugs in Wolfire's code.
Josh707 wrote:Haha that's weird, I find the 870 to be exceptionally good at taking out multiple drones. I usually hide and take pot shots, but when they've spotted me it seems to do a good job of taking them out quickly. I've been using it a lot though. I do find it strange that you would prefer a double barrel for these situations, but to each his own!
The Thompson's action type is 99% scripted now so it operates properly, I'm polishing up the recoil and materials now. I can have it toggle between semi and full auto, but you can't even see the fire selector so I'm not sure what to do with that, I've kept it with safe/full auto for now. The recoil right now is roughly where it will be, but it just doesn't quite feel right to me, part of that might be because of the lack of high quality gun shot audio that suits the Thompson.
Ah, so that's how you do it. I have a terrible time hiding from drones - the only way I can ever get away is by running through a door. Which ends up meaning they float right above that door, ready to give me a face full of taser as soon as I walk through. To avoid that, I try to take them out the first time I go through the door. I let them charge me and shoot when they get close. Kind of like a matador I guess. As you might imagine, it's not quite successful all the time.

As for the Thompson, perhaps you could have the gun tilt for a second (as if the safety is on) the player operates the fire selector? Though, I'm not sure if that tilt is enough to display the fire selector, so is there a way to increase the angle of that tilt? Or perhaps even remap the tilt to another key entirely, so that the player still has the option to flip the fire selector without breaking his aim.
Josh707 wrote:
Davidos wrote:As for the double barrel, consider the implications of:
-snip-
-Switch-trigger to shift which barrel should fire first
Good points! If I ever get a good model I can use then I'm going to try to make it as realistic as possible, like with the rest. I can pretty easily make each chamber fire the bullet out of each barrel so that you have to readjust your aim accordingly,
-snip-
Hm, keep in mind that modern double barrels use single selective trigger (SST) mechanisms. That is, there's only one trigger, and the inertia from the firing of one barrel toggles the mechanism to fire from the other barrel next. The older two trigger mechanism would definitely be more interesting though, especially with the ability to empty both barrels at once. Not sure how easy that would be to script though. (Or how the controls would work)

As for readjusting your aim, the barrels are tilted so that they converge at a certain distance (usually 25 yards or so for SxS), which would makes things a bit interesting if you used the older trigger mechanism.
Davidos wrote:-snip-
Right now I have to shoot a target 4 times in the same area for it to not bounce off and go through.
Do bullets "go through" in Receiver? As I was aware, bullets hit certain target areas, and if the hit was a vital spot, that was it. I wasn't aware there was any sort of armor yet.
Josh707 wrote:I did notice that too, part of it is the gunshot audio but it feels like a pellet gun to me. The only property of bullets that can be changed to affect overall damage is the muzzle velocity - I looked up the velocity for the TT-33 and it's a whopping 480 m/s compared to the 1911's 251m/s, I changed it like with the other guns but now the bullet seems to travel a little too fast. I'm not too familiar with different calibers and how fast they travel so if it's supposed to be that fast, please let me know. Unity measures distance by meters, when you fire the bullet is given a velocity of the weapons forward vector direction multiplied by the speed, which used to be default 251 for all weapons. I'm not sure if that's muzzle velocity but you can set it's initial velocity precisely, should the TT-33's bullet velocity be 480m/s?
Muzzle velocity is relatively synonymous with initial velocity. Longer barrels usually mean slightly higher muzzle velocities, since more of the powder burns in the barrel and thus more energy is transferred to the bullet. Not too much of a difference though.

But something I worry about is a 9mm bullet knocking a drone harder than a .45 ACP would. The .45 ACP round is slower, but has more mass and therefore would transfer more kinetic energy. It's too bad the code only accounts for the velocity of the bullet when it impacts a target, but not the mass.
Josh707 wrote: -recoil stuff-
I'd say the recoil is a bit much in this game, although not too unrealistic. I think the vertical recoil should be reduced, but not by too much. Rotational recoil is definitely out of hand though. That said, it shouldn't be possible to aim at a spot and hose down a tight area with an entire magazine. Recoil gets almost exponentially worse as the gun loosens your grip and "wriggles" out of your hand. The main factor in controlling the rotational recoil is having a tight grip, so that the gun doesn't break your firing grip.

Basically, shooting too fast in semi-auto or on full-auto breaks your grip. You have to give yourself a half second to readjust you firing grip to get the best accuracy and recoil control. So, maybe have rotational recoil increase with each shot? This would make bursts relatively accurate but anything beyond a few shots per burst useless.

I can see how the code work for full-auto, but it seems hard to implement for rapid semi-auto fire. Alternatively, there could be a mechanic where the player needs to periodically readjust his grip, but I can't help but feel that might be a little too much micromanagement.

Controlling vertical recoil is a matter of stance. You have to sort of "lean into it".


As for the ending, I would assume it is a problem with Steam then, since Davidos and I are having the same issue, but you aren't.

Re: Weapon Additions - Updated Nov. 16th

Posted: Sun Nov 17, 2013 2:51 am
by saladofstones
I greatly appreciate the changes made to the lifespan of items, but is there any way to set it to infinite? Or did the game always put a lifespan on them.