Additions to the Lugaru 2: Plants

Post by **David** » Mon Apr 17, 2006 4:18 pm

I am not sure how the end results will compare visually (I haven't started on leaves and optimization yet) with trees in other games, but the main intended advantage of this system is to combine it with physics and hopefully allow for climbing and breaking, and allow plants to automatically distribute themselves based on competition for light and nutrition, late vs. early succession, and so on.

rudel_ic · Post by **rudel_ic** » Mon Apr 17, 2006 4:55 pm

Great! I love gameplay-oriented stuff.

Zantalos · Post by **Zantalos** » Mon Apr 17, 2006 9:29 pm

See I knew it, David is ahead of the game, he's always ahead of the game (the best aiming system, ragdoll system, fighting system, everything he's been doing is the best).
And those trees are going to be the greatest trees anyone has ever created before in the history of mankind. And that, is the way things should be done from now on.

Because isn't that awesome? Everything we thought that couldn't possibly be done, is real (Not! I realized it would be like that from the start

). There's gonna be tree climbing, breakable branches, growing in real-time, it's all happening! I mean look! The trees are growing by themselves!

Speedtree, like all other programs is useless to us (at least most of us right?). Because I don't think we care so much about graphics (textures), we care about awesome effects and gameplay. So I can't compare SpeedTree to Rosen Tree, they're for two different audience. I'm saying that Speedtree is pathetic, how it is considered the best middleware for trees is beyond me, all it does is put detail into trees while containing an extensive library (still, the average ratio of trees to models is, three models per type of tree. Once you've been through one forest, you've seen them all, I'm getting sick of seeing those trees again, and I can't even interact with them.)
Some one else might say that Speedtree is cool, for reasons they can't explain. It's about the type of person, because there is no way you can decide between Speedtree and David's Tree, David's tree wins no contest. Unless you like things based upon art and not physics, The Rosen Tree wins only by half the votes (that would be 50% more or, 3/4 the majority).

rudel_ic · Post by **rudel_ic** » Mon Apr 17, 2006 9:53 pm

Okay...

SpeedTree is good for fast rendering of a huge amount of realistic seed-generated plants and trees in realtime with little production effort. Now what's pathetic about that? And it's definitely not useless.

Interaction with those trees is possible, it just hasn't been done yet.

It undoubtedly is the best "middleware" for rendering trees today. All other approaches that have been used in productions were nothing compared to it. Have you just started playing computer games?

If David is programming a milestone right now, that's one thing. But bashing other important software products with fandom arguments... Come on, you can do better than that.

Don't shoot so many bullets, you'll run out of ammunition

Zantalos · Post by **Zantalos** » Wed Apr 19, 2006 1:04 pm

I'm litterally crying while I start to write this up. I replied back yesterday, but since I installed Xfire, my browser was forced to go to that webpage and I lost all my writing. Then, I reply again today, but while reading through ragdoll physics, my tabs freeze up, and I have to re-close down that window and type it again. This time is it, third times the charm. (I'm going to do alot of copying so I can just repaste if a lose information again, oh man, this is going to take awhile)

Ok, I believe how you would say speedtree is the best middleware for creating and rendering trees. It would make sense because Oblivion has probably the best looking trees I've seen so far. So it's not completely useless, it's the only technology there is that can create trees this well.

But until now, trees were crap they couldn't be used for anything, except maybe hiding behind and crashing into, they take time to render and model (without speedtree), they all use duplicate models, there's just this big long list that makes trees seem like such an afterthought now in games, they can hardly be interacted with the players.
All this work to make trees look more and more realistic, when they don't even act realistic, the closest you can get to a tree is about 2 game feet, there's this invisible bubble around them or something (and I've tried climbing them, jumped right off towers to get on them but, the tops aren't even moddled in, so I just fell till I hit near the top middle of the base, and was forced off). Being able to grow them, climb them and break them, That's going to be so damn awesome, why couldn't they have done this before?

I think that all these software companies are losing it, they spend all this time on art and modeling (the modeling isn't that good, I'm guessing the rendering is the main attraction of speedtree), and they completely forget about gameplay and real programming. It may just be because David owns all, how was he the one to create a completely new tree system in just a little under a month, that's amazing (If David really is doing things one step at a time

). We should start a tradition where we bash other software companies everytime David creates something better than their's.
Edit:lots of grammer issues, there wasn't a real conclusion before

Nuky · Post by **Nuky** » Wed Apr 19, 2006 5:00 pm

I feel no need to post in ere at all, cause Zanta is stealing all my words.

Just wanted to say that what David is doing is great.
Compared to like 99.9% of the games today, all of them got like multiplied trees. Same model over and over. It's sickening. And those invisible collision-bubbles tend to be annoying aswell. What's worse is that you - in most of the games - can't even hit them with objects like sword and such. Yes, maybe it adds a small bitmap-scar on the surface and makes a little sound, but seriously, is that it? All they are are just obstacles to create an atmosphere which then gets destroyed whn you see the same tree like five times in a minute.

So nerrr.

rudel_ic · Post by **rudel_ic** » Thu Apr 20, 2006 10:35 am

Yeah, those tree concepts sound interesting.

Just as a random sidenote: Interactivity with trees is said to be a part of the concept of Crysis (awesome screenshots btw); in the tech demo, someone bombs a tree and it falls on a path, thus blocking it.

Nuky · Post by **Nuky** » Thu Apr 20, 2006 11:29 am

Saw the tech demo. Have to say I'm impressed over that engine. And the stuff. Looks like a free-roaming game with aliens..? Nice to see that games finally include propper lighting on environment and proper interaction.

*suddenly imagines Turner in some jungle at night, walking about in the dark, and then suddenly there comes a sound to the right. And another one behind. Branches starts to move. Nothing pops out. Turner continues to walk. Another sound from above... SPLAT!* (Here you get to imagine turner being lifted up by something, blood starts to stream down his body, and a loud crack, and then finaly his head falls down and stares up at his own feet in fear.)

But I guess that should go under fear, and not plants. So never mind me.

Zantalos · Post by **Zantalos** » Fri Apr 21, 2006 3:59 pm

I couldn't get that video to work, it just went black. Oh well, I got a video off of gamespot but it was of low quality. It seems that when the player zoomed in to make his shot, he clipped a small tree and it fell over (hardly anything to block, so I'm guessing I didn't see it right, or saw the wrong video

).

Cool though. I'm not sure how different that game will be from the FarCry series, now that all rights to the CryTek are now being sold to Eletronics Arts.

And what's that Nuky? Some in game hallucinations? That'd be pretty cool. Maybe after a certain level of fear breaks up in Turner, a sort of dialog appears and Turner get's transported to a little movie scene where he "finds a monster that cuts his head off"? Maybe have it just happen at a certain spot? That could be a cool little scene in one of areas/missions, it could be triggered at a spot on one of the forest levels. I dunno, it seems pretty cool.

Still the interactions with plants sounds neat, in both these places. Characters that brush and shake up bushes, have them obsruct the view and make the players invisible when he hides in foliage (FarCry did a pretty good job with making players invisible when he hides in tall grass/bushes).

And what's motion blur? I thought people said it doesn't exist in games, like it's just not possible, I have no idea.

rudel_ic · Post by **rudel_ic** » Fri Apr 21, 2006 4:33 pm

Zantalos wrote:I couldn't get that video to work, it just went black.

Use VLC

Cool though. I'm not sure how different that game will be from the FarCry series, now that all rights to the CryTek are now being sold to Eletronics Arts.

Hasn't that already happened like 2 years ago?
What makes me wonder is that in contrast to that deal, EA announced lately that they wanted to develop future games more by themselves.

And what's motion blur? I thought people said it doesn't exist in games, like it's just not possible, I have no idea.

Motion blur is possible in realtime rendering environment. Actually, that will be a feature of Lugaru 2. And as you probably already know, it's going to be a feature of Crysis.
I'm not sure whether those Crysis pictures I linked to above were rendered in realtime, I have my doubts. At least, they surely weren't rendered on a machine you can buy with less than 5000$, I assume. Well... At least it would be an astonishing achievement.

Zantalos · Post by **Zantalos** » Fri Apr 21, 2006 4:57 pm

Zantalos wrote:Cool though. I'm not sure how different that game will be from the FarCry series, now that all rights to the CryTek are now being sold to Eletronics Arts.

rudel_ic wrote:Hasn't that already happened like 2 years ago?
What makes me wonder is that in contrast to that deal, EA announced lately that they wanted to develop future games more by themselves.

Oh, well ya. But this time instead of just the developer it is the whole Farcry game engine (CryEngine). I don't even think Crytek has made a single game with EA yet, the first one will be with Crysis, that features the Cryengine, right? I dunno, this is hard to keep track of. I can't even say if Crytek is the german developer, or an actual team of people.

And I want to see video of that motion blur

.(actually i want to see a clip for everything, but it's hard to see the motion blur in a screen shot) Anyways that's going to be cool, I'll actually be able to see it properly with a faster computer now, now that there won't be that cool little Matrix thing happening. (wish I could show you guys it, but I can't take screenshots nor movies while it's happening, I do not know why...)

rudel_ic · Post by **rudel_ic** » Fri Apr 21, 2006 5:48 pm

Zantalos wrote: Oh, well ya. But this time instead of just the developer it is the whole Farcry game engine (CryEngine). I don't even think Crytek has made a single game with EA yet, the first one will be with Crysis, that features the Cryengine, right? I dunno, this is hard to keep track of. I can't even say if Crytek is the german developer, or an actual team of people.

The CryEngine is the old one, FarCry had it. It has been sold to Ubisoft. Ubisoft developed those console offsprings of FarCry with it.
The new Engine is called CryEngine 2. That one hasn't been bought by anyone yet.
Crysis will be the first game by Crytek to be published by EA.
The developer team is called Crytek, it's lead by turkish brothers and is located in germany.

Wow, this went kind of offtopic, eh...

Nuky · Post by **Nuky** » Sat Apr 22, 2006 5:52 am

Zantalos wrote:And what's that Nuky? Some in game hallucinations? That'd be pretty cool. Maybe after a certain level of fear breaks up in Turner, a sort of dialog appears and Turner get's transported to a little movie scene where he "finds a monster that cuts his head off"? Maybe have it just happen at a certain spot? That could be a cool little scene in one of areas/missions, it could be triggered at a spot on one of the forest levels. I dunno, it seems pretty cool.

Wound-fever?

If that's what it's called.
A wound gets infected, you get fever and starts seeing stuff, like dead people very realisticly. Quite common in the very old days. small chance to survive without treatment. >_>

Zantalos · Post by **Zantalos** » Mon Apr 24, 2006 1:14 am

Oh that'd be sick to have like status effects that aren't caused by things like poison. You should get stuff like a really nasty cut that continues to screw up your vision and cause random stuff/enemies to come out of nowhere, when they really aren't there (/hullucinations).

And, maybe the only way to cure it is by using a special herb/plant to uh, apply properly to the wound. Maybe even eating it to cure yourself. Of course, the best treatment would be to clean it off in the water as soon as possible.

But ya, someway of applying plants to something like medical treatment.

Nuky · Post by **Nuky** » Tue Apr 25, 2006 4:03 pm

Zantalos wrote:And, maybe the only way to cure it is by using a special herb/plant to uh, apply properly to the wound.

Desperately trying to stay on topic aren't we?

Good. Atleast that's realistic. I mean... Herbs can heal/cure you from various stuff. And rabbits are herbivores.
And stay away from cleaning your wounds in the swamps and likes. >_o