Lugaru 2 NEEDS GORE.

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Xiao
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Lugaru 2 NEEDS GORE.

Post by Xiao » Sun Jun 04, 2006 10:52 pm

Here's an idea of how it would work. Ever play Prince of Persia: Warrior within, or Prince of Persia: The Two Thrones? There's AWESOME gore effects in those games, so check it out. Here's some examples.

(Of course, in L2 it will be rabbits and animals, but I'll use people anyhow.)

Image

Here is a list of ways I think the enemies should be able to be disposed of. Large enough to be interesting, small enough to be realistic.
  • Head Chopped Off, flies off as blood sprays
    Split down-the-middle, head to toe. Character splits / peels into two.
    Split diagonally (first image shown in exmaple). Enemy's top half slides down and the other half keels over.
    Arm amputate (arm flies off, blood sprays, character keels over and dies)
    Leg Amputate (leg flies off, blood sprays as the character falls down instantly, and dies)
    Side-to-side chop (character flies into two peices)
This could be implemented by making ragdolls of the full body, head, legs + arms, either side vertically, either side horizontally, and either side diagonally. Then implement the detecting system that on a random chance splits the character or leaves him intact, and also calculates which type of split is the most likely according to the move that kills the enemy, and then creates ragdolls accordingly, with lots of spraying-blood particles.

Sounds like a ton of work but it actually isn't that hard, many other games have done it, and it seems perfectly fit for L2.

Here's some pictures of the game Warrior Within to see what I mean.

http://img.gamespot.com/gamespot/images ... een001.jpg
Head Chop

http://img.gamespot.com/gamespot/images ... een009.jpg
Another Head Chop Picture

Unfortunately, I can't find any pictures of the cutting-in-half stuff, but if you view some trailers you can see it has great animations, as the characters peel apart from head to toe with a satisfying sound.

lpod100
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Post by lpod100 » Sun Jun 04, 2006 11:11 pm

the only ones that are actually realistic are the head-chop and the horizontal slice through the torso, simply because of the shear amount of force needed to cut through all of the bones (and, well, everything else). also, it would make fighting less interesting if you could just cut them into pieces. sure, it would be cool if you like that sort of thing, but for people like me, it'd be better if there was less dismemberment and more emphasis on technique.


also, what do you mean by "disposed of"? hiding the bodies or actually fighting them like that?


then again, its always good to have that feature and be able to turn it on and off, to get the whole spectrum of the market.

Xiao
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Post by Xiao » Sun Jun 04, 2006 11:13 pm

By "disposed of" I simply meant cool ways for Turner to dispatch his enemies, AKA kill them. I know a head-to-toes chop is unrealistic, but it would be extremely rare, and it would look absolutely awesome. I mean, think about it, you can't really complain about realisim - Lugaru is a game about Ninja bunnies who run at 80 MPH and fly miles through the air in order to kill each other. Realism isn't exactly on the most-needed list.

lpod100
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Post by lpod100 » Sun Jun 04, 2006 11:16 pm

that was a fast response, i haven't even signed out yet! anyway, 80mph? granted, Lugaru is still a video game, not a physics simulation, but David still put a lot of thought into making the fighting realistic, though at the same time fun

Xiao
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Post by Xiao » Sun Jun 04, 2006 11:20 pm

Well, you and I both know that Lugaru runs as fast as hell and jumps as far as it too.

I think new, cool death effects would grealy improve the Lugaru experience. It would give the fighting so much more interest, style and depth. Let's face it, players love to 'own' their opponents in the most satisfying way possible after fighting them for a while. Imagine having a long quarrel with an enemy, and finally end it by placing a blow that causes a slow-motion decapitation. Your enemys head flies high and the blood particles fly, and as the slow motion effect stops, you watch the ragdoll of your headless former-opponent tumble down the hill.

Such a thing wold be a great reason to go and play Lugaru more, those "awesome effects for killing people" and such. It would, in my opinion, add more depth, replayability, style and interactivity, all while making the player feel extremely bad-ass. Keep in mind this effect wouldn't happen very often; perhaps a 30-40% chance of a gore kill.

Jeff
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Post by Jeff » Sun Jun 04, 2006 11:24 pm

I beat the Two Thrones and the first modern PoP remake... I never noticed any gore. Is there something you need activate?

The head chop is easy. Lugaru 1 actually has this in debug mode - you can explode people's heads in a fountain of blood. Arm and legs are also easy, David's SoS has this and more, the robots actually crawl around when you destroy their legs. However, cutting someone in half at any arbitrary point is extremely difficult, and I have never seen it done in a game before. Lugaru 2's physics model actually would make this possible. You will definitely be able to chop trees and other objects, for instance, at arbitrary points. However, the blatant gore involved in chopping someone's arm off or slicing their torso in half might not be a direction David wants to go. Gore has always been a part of Lugaru, but dismemberment is taking it to the next level. Personally, I'm for it, especially given all the technology that David has innovated for L2, but I'm not sure if David will approve. There would certainly be an option to disable it.

Xiao
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Post by Xiao » Sun Jun 04, 2006 11:29 pm

Jeff wrote:I beat the Two Thrones and the first modern PoP remake... I never noticed any gore. Is there something you need activate?

The head chop is easy. Lugaru 1 actually has this in debug mode - you can explode people's heads in a fountain of blood. Arm and legs are also easy, David's SoS has this and more, the robots actually crawl around when you destroy their legs. However, cutting someone in half at any arbitrary point is extremely difficult, and I have never seen it done in a game before. Lugaru 2's physics model actually would make this possible. You will definitely be able to chop trees and other objects, for instance, at arbitrary points. However, the blatant gore involved in chopping someone's arm off or slicing their torso in half might not be a direction David wants to go. Gore has always been a part of Lugaru, but dismemberment is taking it to the next level. Personally, I'm for it, especially given all the technology that David has innovated for L2, but I'm not sure if David will approve. There would certainly be an option to disable it.
It doesn't need to be randomly-based points of splitting enemies, more like pre-defined animations that play out when you kill people with certain moves, I suppose. And I don't see how chopping arms off is more violent then chopping heads off. Splitting people in half, however, is definatley M-rated (as Lugaru 1 was, anyhow), and I agree there would most likely be an option to turn it off, which is good.

The Two Thrones does indeed have a lot of gore, you have to turn it on in the game options I suppose although I thought it was default. Heads fly, enemies are split apart in all sorts of gruesome ways, split down the middle, chopped in half by the torso, etc, but there's no blood. Enemies can only be killed in gory manors if you're past the part where they turn into sand, and before that there is only blood but no gore. When they are turned into sand, there's gore but no blood. Warrior Within, however, has blood and gore everywhere.

If by the "first modern PoP remake" you mean the sands of time, there was some gore in that as well. You can free enemies, knock them into the air, and then unrealisticly chop them in half from head to toe, but either half just goes flying and then disapears, not very violent.

zip
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Post by zip » Mon Jun 05, 2006 12:38 am

Xiao wrote:Keep in mind this effect wouldn't happen very often; perhaps a 30-40% chance of a gore kill.
I think that's way too high if it's going to be a rare "omg did i just see what i think i saw!?" move..

Jeff
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Post by Jeff » Mon Jun 05, 2006 12:42 am

There won't be any preset animations in L2. If it was going to be done, it would be done right, i.e. anything can be chopped off at any angle.

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Renegade_Turner
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Post by Renegade_Turner » Mon Jun 05, 2006 8:00 am

It just wouldn't happen, the neck slice, sure, but the other types of slicing would just take way too much raw power to do in one clean efficient stroke. I'm not for it.

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Post by JLrep » Mon Jun 05, 2006 10:10 am

The other thread seems to be gone now...
I'd like to cut to the chase here and say that Sands of Time was an almost unintelligibly better game than Warrior Within, and that, sad as it may be, the laughable amounts of gore in WW were a contributing factor to that relation.
Last edited by JLrep on Mon Jun 05, 2006 4:36 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Post by JLrep » Mon Jun 05, 2006 10:13 am

Jeff wrote:However, cutting someone in half at any arbitrary point is extremely difficult, and I have never seen it done in a game before.
Didn't Jedi Outcast have that, if you turned on a certain option/cheat code?

Xiao
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Post by Xiao » Mon Jun 05, 2006 10:35 am

Yes it did, as well as Musashi Samurai Legend.

I know there won't be any "preset animations", but preset cutting points would be a hell of a lot easier then making a whole system devoted to making randomly based death split animations.

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Post by Renegade_Turner » Mon Jun 05, 2006 1:03 pm

Jedi Outcast, by the way, was a laughably better quality game than Prince Of Persia. I finished Jedi Outcast there about two weeks or something ago.
And yes, it did have the option concerning the seperation of limbs from the body of overly enthusiastic enemies who came in lightsabers flying only to have their lightsaber hand cut off from the wrist.

Nuky
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Post by Nuky » Mon Jun 05, 2006 2:49 pm

If David don't want to include gore with the game, it MUST become a cheatcode/downloadable hack/patch!! :D

I can't imagine a this good and cool martial arts game without dismemberment :P

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