Black Shades Modding

Anything related to Wolfire Games and/or its products
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Dequire
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Re: Editing an old Wolfire game

Post by Dequire » Fri May 11, 2012 12:56 am

Count Roland wrote:You can already do custom levels fairly simply though. and I can foresee some problems with the new player models since there aren't individual player models but separate models for each part of the players body. my guess is that what you have planned will require quite a bit of programming since the city's completely randomly generated with a square grid of streets or whatever.
I don't see how the player models would be any different. Simply re-model each individual model. It's a simple system. Why change it?

And as for the randomly generated city, what's wrong with adding the various places, then adding possible bot paths inside of the buildings? Each time a bot/V.I.P passes by a building/alleyway, they could have a randomized chance of accepting the bot path and going into the area, or continuing down the street. I'm not entirely sure how complicated that'd be, but from my view point it'd utilize some of the game's current functions for random spawns/weapons.

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Silverfish
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Re: Editing an old Wolfire game

Post by Silverfish » Fri May 11, 2012 12:13 pm

Unless you actually know how to program, you're over-simplifying what you want to do VERY much. You'd need to have quite a bit of experience in programming to be able to change the game to accept interiors and make those other changes to AI navigation etc. that you're talking about.

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Dequire
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Re: Editing an old Wolfire game

Post by Dequire » Fri May 11, 2012 2:29 pm

Silverfish wrote:Unless you actually know how to program, you're over-simplifying what you want to do VERY much. You'd need to have quite a bit of experience in programming to be able to change the game to accept interiors and make those other changes to AI navigation etc. that you're talking about.
I've done a bit of coding in another game called Blockland, though it wasn't much, mostly editing existing scripts. But from what I see, Black Shades either works with a point A to point B system, or normal bot paths. Normal bot paths would be mildly simple.

Now, as you probably know, when the V.I.P gets to the end of the street, he turns the corner and continues down the way to the next street corner (Like a good prostitute). I may not have my information correct, but I don't see the difficulty in adding a few more points. Such as, when he reaches a certain point, the scrip tells him to pause and turn. Just like at the street corner. And continue on.

Like I said, I could have my stuff wrong.

And as for interiors... What's wrong with just adding three walls, a fourth wall with a small doorway in it and a ceiling? (And if that doesn't work, can just add random scenery. Badly designed trees, small park, empty lots, etc)

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Korban3
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Re: Editing an old Wolfire game

Post by Korban3 » Fri May 11, 2012 2:59 pm

Well, I'll say it now that I haven't done any pathfinding AI. I know the principles behind simple versions of it, but if we were intent on doing interior/exterior pathfinding then I would immediately set about learning about nav meshes. That's the cleanest, best way of doing pathfinding.
I'd rather not have to rewrite a bunch of random world generation code either. I don't understand any of that sort of stuff yet and wouldn't be able to effectively implement new structures and areas for a while.
I can help with smaller things, like getting the model import/export since that's a much simpler matter than rewriting David's AI and then maybe changing it up so that there is a mission/scenario based system of gameplay rather than a random follow the VIP one. It'll take time for me to learn more about the code in order to make more complex things possible.

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Dequire
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Re: Editing an old Wolfire game

Post by Dequire » Fri May 11, 2012 3:43 pm

Korban3 wrote:Well, I'll say it now that I haven't done any pathfinding AI. I know the principles behind simple versions of it, but if we were intent on doing interior/exterior pathfinding then I would immediately set about learning about nav meshes. That's the cleanest, best way of doing pathfinding.
I'd rather not have to rewrite a bunch of random world generation code either. I don't understand any of that sort of stuff yet and wouldn't be able to effectively implement new structures and areas for a while.
I can help with smaller things, like getting the model import/export since that's a much simpler matter than rewriting David's AI and then maybe changing it up so that there is a mission/scenario based system of gameplay rather than a random follow the VIP one. It'll take time for me to learn more about the code in order to make more complex things possible.
I completely understand. I wasn't expecting to get everything done in a week, neither of us has messed with any of the coding (As far as I know) in Black Shades yet. Starting off with editing the weapons/player model parts would be a much easier system to work with right off. Just test things out and see how they'll meld. For now, just see what you can do about the importer/exporter so that I can get started on the models. I'd really prefer to work off of the originals, so that I don't have to do a lot of complicated size comparisons. I can just take the barrels and edit everything around that.

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Korban3
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Re: Editing an old Wolfire game

Post by Korban3 » Fri May 11, 2012 5:58 pm

Alright, yeah.
Now, where get source code?
I checked the SVN over at the icculus page, but I have no idea what I'm supposed to download out of that, nor how to simply download the entire Black Shades package so I have everything needed.

Also, I assume that since David did Black Shades on a Mac, I'll need something akin to XCode or maybe MinGW to compile the C++ code?
Feelin' n00beh all over again...

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Dequire
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Re: Editing an old Wolfire game

Post by Dequire » Sat May 12, 2012 1:37 pm

Well, as I've said, I don't know a whole lot of coding, but I've looked through a bit of it and tried some on another game. I failed for the most part, but I know how it works, for the most part.

Simply adding another building type to the world generation could wouldn't be too difficult. As I said, it'd be quite comparable to simply letting the bot turn when he reaches the street corner. A simple quick change of direction at a certain angle, only it'd be walking for a shorter time. Simple going from point A to B again and again.

And personally, I'd like to just be able to download the whole thing and edit the scripts/files from there. That'd make it much easier to test and bug-wipe.

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Dequire
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Re: Editing an old Wolfire game

Post by Dequire » Tue May 15, 2012 7:04 pm

Bump.

Anyone got any ideas? Suggestions for coding?

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Korban3
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Re: Editing an old Wolfire game

Post by Korban3 » Wed May 16, 2012 12:33 am

Mrgh, I still need to know how on earth to access the source code.
HEY! EXPERIENCED USERS! I need some help getting the Black Shades source and a compiler for it, which looks like I'll need something other than VSC++.
I DEMAND THAT YOU HELP ME NOW SO I CAN THEN TELL YOU THANK YOU IN A MOST GRATEFUL TONE

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AAorris
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Re: Editing an old Wolfire game

Post by AAorris » Wed May 16, 2012 10:58 am

Korban3 wrote:Mrgh, I still need to know how on earth to access the source code.
HEY! EXPERIENCED USERS! I need some help getting the Black Shades source and a compiler for it, which looks like I'll need something other than VSC++.
I DEMAND THAT YOU HELP ME NOW SO I CAN THEN TELL YOU THANK YOU IN A MOST GRATEFUL TONE
[+] getting the source code
- If you're running windows, download some svn command line tools,
ie http://www.sliksvn.com/en/download

- open up command prompt, navigate to where you want the files, and type in or paste

Code: Select all

svn co svn://svn.icculus.org/blackshades/trunk/ blackshades
now you have the source code.
If you're having compiler problems, I assume you already have the source code...

Now, to compile from the makefile, I'll get you up to speed with
[+] where I am.
-Download the complete package without sources here

-Set your path variable to include GnuWin32/bin

-open command prompt, cd to where you svn co'd blackshades(for me I just had to type cd blackshades) and type make all

-get a big error and become perplexed; decide to take a break
As for looking into the future, you can often find hints by looking into the past

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Dequire
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Re: Editing an old Wolfire game

Post by Dequire » Wed May 16, 2012 3:37 pm

AAorris wrote:
[+] getting the source code
- If you're running windows, download some svn command line tools,
ie http://www.sliksvn.com/en/download

- open up command prompt, navigate to where you want the files, and type in or paste

Code: Select all

svn co svn://svn.icculus.org/blackshades/trunk/ blackshades
now you have the source code.
If you're having compiler problems, I assume you already have the source code...

Now, to compile from the makefile, I'll get you up to speed with
[+] where I am.
-Download the complete package without sources here

-Set your path variable to include GnuWin32/bin

-open command prompt, cd to where you svn co'd blackshades(for me I just had to type cd blackshades) and type make all

-get a big error and become perplexed; decide to take a break
As for looking into the future, you can often find hints by looking into the past
I'll be sure and add you to the credits. Thank you AAoris, it's much appreciated.

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Korban3
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Re: Editing an old Wolfire game/Black Shades Modding!

Post by Korban3 » Wed May 16, 2012 5:32 pm

Great, that'll help a ton AAorris! I appreciate it a lot ;)
I'll take a crack at this, see what happens.

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Jaz
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Re: Editing an old Wolfire game/Black Shades Modding!

Post by Jaz » Thu May 17, 2012 11:25 am

Black Shades looks interesting. I've barely played it but it would be great to see a modification for it. :)

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Korban3
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Re: Black Shades Modding

Post by Korban3 » Fri May 18, 2012 1:04 am

Got around to acquiring the source. Promptly shit bricks at how complex it is.
Not that I didn't expect to, but still.
It'll take me a while, if I get it at all, to get a .solid/.obj script together. And I doubt I could do it in Python, as a Blender script, because I know next to nothing of Python. It'd have to be some crappy looking application that you feed a .solid or .obj directory and output directory into that it then uses to convert from one to the other and export.
Seriously though, some of the technology stuff in that code is so far over my fuckin' head, it isn't even funny.

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Dequire
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Re: Black Shades Modding

Post by Dequire » Fri May 18, 2012 3:15 am

Ah, the joys of being a modder.

Don't worry. It's all about the learning experience. Think of it this way. You only have to learn the system once, then everything opens up. I'm not gonna rush you, I'll wait patiently. Take your time with it and explore what you like, get a good feel for it.

...God, I sound like I'm high.

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