Big Idea, but hard to make - Bow and Arrows

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Themap
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Re: Big Idea, but hard to make - Bow and Arrows (full tutori

Post by Themap » Wed Sep 12, 2012 8:57 am

Korban3 wrote:That is true along with that fact that if there are bows and I refuse to use them, I'm not at a massive disadvantage. The enemy can pick me off and I have no way to retaliate until I get closer, if I can.
Just because I don't use them doesn't mean they aren't going to effect my gameplay.
That's what I meant by them no being an addon at all. The weapons in OG constantly effect what choices the player will make. You can't just ignore that the dog in front you has a broadsword. You have to change up your gameplay somehow to compensate. The same would go for bows, mostly that if they were not executed perfectly, the player would spend all of their time trying to stay in cover and fight off melee enemies too. It would become frustrating.
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This...

jdturner11
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Re: Big Idea, but hard to make - Bow and Arrows (full tutori

Post by jdturner11 » Fri Sep 14, 2012 12:42 am

I'd wonder the effect it had if it was a parameter all in itself. This is, of course, assuming the wolfire devs found a reasonable way to implement bows into the game while adhering to the amazing atmosphere and brutal gameplay.

The points above are great, but are made with the idea that bows and arrows are consistently free floating in the editor. I think an enable/disable situation would be ideal; whereas if you check a box for archery it'll enable the spawn of NPC Archers in said game with bows (if that was intended by the mode creator) whereas if not they'd simply equip a weapon set as an "if no" command.

I honestly don't feel that would be harmful to those who are opposed to archery, maybe at times you'd be playing a game mode not as intended, but that's a badge of honor for Overgrowth in general, it's free-form mechanics that allow you to change the sandbox. Not to mention the requirement of setting a different weapon in the event of unchecked archery would make creators more mindful to that playstyle.


It's been shown time and time again players can avoid a mechanic they don't like. There's a large market for players wanting certain aspects they disagree with being modded out of their games, this would allow that in vanilla gameplay. I think a lot of people would appreciate the addition, that's my opinion.


I tend to sound a bit....pompous online and that really isn't what I'm about. I don't argue angrily, I prefer to calmly suggest and listen to responses. I have no misconception that I know what's best for the game, I like to talk - it's a flaw of mine. So with that in mind, I hope what I said doesn't turn anything into a heated argument.

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Endoperez
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Re: Big Idea, but hard to make - Bow and Arrows (full tutori

Post by Endoperez » Fri Sep 14, 2012 3:32 pm

Oh, sure, it will be modded in. Guns too (they're actually easier).

We're just arguing against having the developers spend time in doing them, AND balancing them, because if it's official it's expected that it's balanced.

Merqos
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Re: Big Idea, but hard to make - Bow and Arrows (full tutori

Post by Merqos » Wed Nov 14, 2012 8:56 am

Endoperez wrote:Oh, sure, it will be modded in. Guns too (they're actually easier).

We're just arguing against having the developers spend time in doing them, AND balancing them, because if it's official it's expected that it's balanced.
Why are you againts Bow and arrow? I mean, if you hate them soo much, why use them when/if they will be modded in? As I said "You are the chooser of wepons in this game!" Not me, not John. YOU! Is that so hard to make a choice by yourself?

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Anton
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Re: Big Idea, but hard to make - Bow and Arrows (full tutori

Post by Anton » Wed Nov 14, 2012 1:39 pm

Merqos wrote:
Endoperez wrote:Oh, sure, it will be modded in. Guns too (they're actually easier).

We're just arguing against having the developers spend time in doing them, AND balancing them, because if it's official it's expected that it's balanced.
Why are you againts Bow and arrow? I mean, if you hate them soo much, why use them when/if they will be modded in? As I said "You are the chooser of wepons in this game!" Not me, not John. YOU! Is that so hard to make a choice by yourself?
He's actually said many times that he thinks they will be cool to have as mods, just not as part of the vanilla game. It's something that changes the nature of the game, and costs the devs a lot of time, so he doesn't think Wolfire should add it to the game.

Merqos
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Re: Big Idea, but hard to make - Bow and Arrows (full tutori

Post by Merqos » Wed Nov 14, 2012 3:30 pm

Anton wrote:
Merqos wrote:
Endoperez wrote:Oh, sure, it will be modded in. Guns too (they're actually easier).

We're just arguing against having the developers spend time in doing them, AND balancing them, because if it's official it's expected that it's balanced.
Why are you againts Bow and arrow? I mean, if you hate them soo much, why use them when/if they will be modded in? As I said "You are the chooser of wepons in this game!" Not me, not John. YOU! Is that so hard to make a choice by yourself?
He's actually said many times that he thinks they will be cool to have as mods, just not as part of the vanilla game. It's something that changes the nature of the game, and costs the devs a lot of time, so he doesn't think Wolfire should add it to the game.
By nature, you mean that Bow and arrow is too modern? Or Doesn't it feel right in the close combat experience? Well, I`ve seen the comics, in the story there is a boat with sail.
And then I thought: when they have come so far with technology, why Doesn't they have Bow and arrows? They are hunting fishes with tools/ weapons, but not birds. How can they hunt birds otherwise than bow and arrow? I am sure there is many ways to hunt down birds, like sneaking behind them or something.

P.s: I do not want the devs wasting their time with making this Idea, if nobody wants this in the game, that is why i took the Idea here. so people could say their meaning. :D I am more then glad for all the comments on this post, i truly am! Now we know that most of the people don't want this in game. ;)
Last edited by Merqos on Thu Oct 30, 2014 9:34 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Endoperez
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Re: Big Idea, but hard to make - Bow and Arrows (full tutori

Post by Endoperez » Wed Nov 14, 2012 3:43 pm

Merqos wrote:Why are you againts Bow and arrow? I mean, if you hate them soo much, why use them when/if they will be modded in? As I said "You are the chooser of wepons in this game!" Not me, not John. YOU! Is that so hard to make a choice by yourself?
I can only choose from what the developers made available to me. I expect that the options they give me are more or less balanced against each other. If they aren't, I (and most players) will most likely end up using the most powerful option.
If the weapons are unbalanced, it is a problem.



It's not a problem when a (small) mod is unbalanced, because eyou only use the mod because if you want to play with the stuff it adds. It doesn't matter if you're encouraged to only use the stuff that mod gives you. That's what you wanted, after all...



Also, just because me and some others argue against bows doesn't mean people don't want bows. Bows are one of THE MOST REQUESTED features in this forum. What players wants isn't always what the developers want, though.

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Anton
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Re: Big Idea, but hard to make - Bow and Arrows (full tutori

Post by Anton » Wed Nov 14, 2012 3:45 pm

Merqos wrote:By nature, you mean that Bow and arrow is too modern? Or Doesn't it feel right in the close combat experience? Well, I`ve seen the comics, in the storry there is a boat with sail.
And then I tought: when they have come so far with technology, why Doesn't they have Bow and arrows? They are hunting fishes with tools/ weapons, but not birds. How can they hunt birds otherwiese than bow and arrow? I am sure there is many ways to hunt down birds, like sneaking behind them or something.

P.s: I do not want the devs wasting thier time with making this Idea, if nobody wants this in the game, thats why i took the Idea here. so people could say their meaning. :D I am more then glad for all the comments on this post, i truly am! Now we know that most of the people don't want this in game. ;)
The nature of the combat, not that it is too modern. The game is really centered around melee combat, and adding bow and arrows adds certain game play styles that can eliminate that possibility. I wish I could quote Endoperez better on this, but he has listed (in many threads) how it unbalances the game. There is little risk involved with starting every combat by trying to snipe from a distance with a bow, but the potential reward is that you get an instant kill (or other positive bonus) and you lose out on the core game play.

However, we all seem to agree that modding it in could be very fun, and certainly add a different dimension to the game.

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Re: Big Idea, but hard to make - Bow and Arrows (full tutori

Post by Merqos » Wed Nov 14, 2012 4:44 pm

Endoperez wrote:
Merqos wrote:Why are you againts Bow and arrow? I mean, if you hate them soo much, why use them when/if they will be modded in? As I said "You are the chooser of wepons in this game!" Not me, not John. YOU! Is that so hard to make a choice by yourself?
I can only choose from what the developers made available to me. I expect that the options they give me are more or less balanced against each other. If they aren't, I (and most players) will most likely end up using the most powerful option.
If the weapons are unbalanced, it is a problem.



It's not a problem when a (small) mod is unbalanced, because eyou only use the mod because if you want to play with the stuff it adds. It doesn't matter if you're encouraged to only use the stuff that mod gives you. That's what you wanted, after all...



Also, just because me and some others argue against bows doesn't mean people don't want bows. Bows are one of THE MOST REQUESTED features in this forum. What players wants isn't always what the developers want, though.
I do not want to force the developers, thats why it is an idea... I appreciate all your answers.

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underthedeep
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Re: Big Idea, but hard to make - Bow and Arrows (full tutori

Post by underthedeep » Sat Nov 17, 2012 5:54 pm

I'm still laughing about "FULL TUTORIAL". :lol:

WMan22
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Re: Big Idea, but hard to make - Bow and Arrows (full tutori

Post by WMan22 » Thu Nov 22, 2012 5:42 am

I think i know how to make this work.

Both Turner and his Enemies would have an arrow trajectory or some kind of other notification of where an arrow is going and where it's going to be, think grenade path graphs that you see in most Third Person Shooters or some kind of alternative but that applies to arrows. (Yes i know to say TPS on here sounds bad, but hear me out)

You would need to hold down the attack button, and the trajectory would be timed. Think of the way that you handle the Breakers Bow in the game Bastion, or the torque bow in Gears of War, where you have to hold it down but there would be a sweet spot in the timing.

But in the overgrowth type of this, there's a catch. if you miss the aforementioned "Sweet Spot" trajectory goes back down, off centers, or becomes increasingly difficult to aim, maybe even fading out the arrow trajectory notification entirely while randomizing the trajectory. Also, You have a set or limited number of arrows. Imagine long distance combat on some levels, where the bow can only be used in those levels/challenges because those are the only levels where it is even possible to get the bow, kind of like how in Lugaru you would sometimes spawn in with a knife, but on other maps you wouldn't.

Imagine assaulting a wolf camp from a distance. You would have a reason to use the bow because close combat is very difficult with wolves.

As for how it would be balanced with enemies who use bows, maybe implement some kind of system where Turner can catch arrows shot at him and possibly use them as one time stab weapons that do about as much damage as you would expect an arrow stabbed into an enemy to do. It stays true to the kind of combat overgrowth goes for, and adds a whole new layer of depth to the game. After all, just close combat and nothing else may get monotonous after a while. Implementing long distance combat can vary the gameplay from time to time.

I know it IS possible to do it somehow, even if my suggestions might not be perfect, but i just thought i'd add my two cents.

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underthedeep
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Re: Big Idea, but hard to make - Bow and Arrows

Post by underthedeep » Sat Nov 24, 2012 12:45 pm

i don't think there was ever a doubt if it would "work", i think the issue is who wants it and why it's not/is wanted.




ps. i think it's even funnier now that "full tutorial" was taken out of the title after i mentioned it.


comedy here guys, comedy.

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Korban3
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Re: Big Idea, but hard to make - Bow and Arrows

Post by Korban3 » Sun Nov 25, 2012 1:45 am

Brutal, Jesse. Not that I have room to talk ;)
I miss you when you're gone.

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underthedeep
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Re: Big Idea, but hard to make - Bow and Arrows

Post by underthedeep » Tue Nov 27, 2012 5:52 pm

Korban3 wrote: I miss you when you're gone.

i cry every time :cry:

Merqos
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Re: Big Idea, but hard to make - Bow and Arrows

Post by Merqos » Wed Nov 28, 2012 6:53 pm

underthedeep wrote:i don't think there was ever a doubt if it would "work", i think the issue is who wants it and why it's not/is wanted.




ps. i think it's even funnier now that "full tutorial" was taken out of the title after i mentioned it.


comedy here guys, comedy.
....
It was a "tutorial" for the Idea, so i took it away because you were laughing at my Idea. So yeah, thanks for the head`up!

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