I'm a little pissed off...

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Sephiroth7
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I'm a little pissed off...

Post by Sephiroth7 » Sat Feb 16, 2013 4:08 pm

Okay, so I pre-ordered overgrowth. I've seen videos on the alpha and it looks just incredible, and I wanted some of that. Now, I do not have the best machine in the world, but I figured it wouldn't be a problem. I get into the game, and I'm on 1 frame per second, 3 MAX when in slo-mo.

I think, okay, I'll change some graphics settings to up the performance a bit. Oh wait, there's no way to apply settings in the settings menu while in the game; you have to do it via editing a config file and restarting the game. Also, finding out that the game requires a certain type of graphics card to run properly REALLY bugged me.

Now, correct me if I'm wrong, but this game has been in development for, what, 5 years? I'm aware it's an indie company and I'm sure they are trying to get the basic game and features functional before they smooth out the crinkles, but in my opinion no options is a very large problem? Also, not even editing the config file allows for proper setting adjustment - several of the options can't even be changed because the game shows an error message about having no alternative to run i.e shaders cannot be turned off.

I could cope with the issues if the alpha was, say, $15 or so. But to pay $30 for an ALPHA that doesn't run properly on any but the best computer is absurd in my opinion. I'm not asking for a refund, as I've bought it once, may as well keep it until the game is released and play it properly, but I seriously hope the devs get their priorities straight a little better. Being able to carry 6 weapons is less important than making the game actually run on a larger range of quality of machines is it not?!

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DI0BL0
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Re: I'm a little pissed off...

Post by DI0BL0 » Sat Feb 16, 2013 4:16 pm

Like you said, its a fucking alpha. The last few updates have been strongly devoted to making the game lag less. And if you get 3 fps in slow motion, them your computer sucks, or the game is bad with your graphics card, and will eventually should be fixed.

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Endoperez
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Re: I'm a little pissed off...

Post by Endoperez » Sat Feb 16, 2013 4:22 pm

They worked on this stuff very recently. The last 3 alphas were updates on the speed the game runs with, among other things.


Shaders can't be turned off, because shaders animate the characters. The bone translations are all calculated in the vertex shader.

As for the 15$ - you're not paying for the alpha, but for the final version. The alphas are just a bonus.

There being no easily changeable options is because there aren't many things to change. It would be nice, I agree, but because there aren't many settings to change, it's not important. If the game doesn't work, the settings probably won't change anything ATM...
There is a fan-made utility (SUMLauncher) that you can use to change the settings, but none of the settings speed up the game in a major way. Besides some debugging options and controls, there are:

realtime shadows (slower and more graphics-card intensive than the default shadows)
lowering texture quality
changing resolution
amount of anti-aliasing
anisotropic filtering
mouse sensitivity
"gpu skinning" (I have no idea what this does, but it might be related to animations)
enabling/disabling post-pro effects (I think they're off by default)

That's not a long list.

Sephiroth7
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Re: I'm a little pissed off...

Post by Sephiroth7 » Sat Feb 16, 2013 4:28 pm

DI0BL0 wrote:Like you said, its a fucking alpha. The last few updates have been strongly devoted to making the game lag less. And if you get 3 fps in slow motion, them your computer sucks, or the game is bad with your graphics card, and will eventually should be fixed.
Yes, my computer isn't great. I know this. But most things I can run decently on it by turning settings down and stuff like that. To the graphics card part - WTF?! How long has this alpha been out and in development and they still haven't fixed the fact that it only runs properly on a certain kind of graphics card?!

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Endoperez
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Re: I'm a little pissed off...

Post by Endoperez » Sat Feb 16, 2013 4:44 pm

Sephiroth7 wrote:Yes, my computer isn't great. I know this. But most things I can run decently on it by turning settings down and stuff like that. To the graphics card part - WTF?! How long has this alpha been out and in development and they still haven't fixed the fact that it only runs properly on a certain kind of graphics card?!
You know, Blender 3D is now too big to fit on a reasonable number of floppy disks. The developers made a conscious choice and stopped supporting that.

Sometimes backwards compatibility isn't worth it.

I'm not saying it's the case here. I'm just giving an extreme example on why all programs / games won't run on all computers. Could you perhaps tell us which graphics card you are using? It's hard to discuss your situation without knowing the specifics.

Also, there's nothing wrong in a refund. If you can't play the game, perhaps it'd be better to just take the money for now and spend it on something else. Games are for fun, and I get a feeling Overgrowth is only giving you frustration for now.
You can buy the game later when you can play it - and hopefully enjoy it, too.

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last
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Re: I'm a little pissed off...

Post by last » Sat Feb 16, 2013 5:01 pm

I think that he made an emotional purchase. He watched some alpha videos and maybe some fan made videos. He liked that what he saw and based on that, he made an instant decision to buy this game. But what he did not do was reacherch for system requirements.
Yeah, to bad that this happened, but at least this time, you can get a full refund when you contact Wolfire and tell them what happened.

Sephiroth7
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Re: I'm a little pissed off...

Post by Sephiroth7 » Sat Feb 16, 2013 5:40 pm

I don't want a refund, I want them to make the game work no matter what a customer is trying to run it on (within reason I mean). It's like only selling clothes in a size that only fits the minority of people? 5 Years into development and I really can't believe this is still a problem. It's simply ridiculous.

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Endoperez
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Re: I'm a little pissed off...

Post by Endoperez » Sat Feb 16, 2013 6:16 pm

Sephiroth7 wrote:I don't want a refund, I want them to make the game work no matter what a customer is trying to run it on (within reason I mean). It's like only selling clothes in a size that only fits the minority of people? 5 Years into development and I really can't believe this is still a problem. It's simply ridiculous.
Sorry, but it isn't ridiculous. It's regrettable that it doesn't work for your computer. It's perfectly understandable that a game won't run on all computers. Your computer is running it, slowly, right? The levels load, you see characters and so on, right? That's more than some other computers are doing ATM. That's more than Linux users had for years during the development.

May I ask how much experience you have in game development? I have a feeling you don't know anything about it and are just making this up. I'm not a game programmer, but I've studied game design and simple programming, and I don't think these are easy problems to solve.

Sephiroth7
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Re: I'm a little pissed off...

Post by Sephiroth7 » Sat Feb 16, 2013 6:46 pm

Yes it is 'running' but it's unplayable. And the only level that loads is the red crystals one. And no I haven't studied game design or anything like that but I've played a lot of games and I'm not an idiot. Now the fact is they have released and are charging for an alpha of a game that only runs on high end computers and specific graphics cards, and have been doing so for however many years the alpha has been out. And from the way it's been going I'm betting it's gonna take another 20 years just to get the game released seeing as it's in exactly the same state it was a year or two ago. I changed my mind, I want a refund.

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underthedeep
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Re: I'm a little pissed off...

Post by underthedeep » Sat Feb 16, 2013 7:04 pm

Sephiroth7 wrote:Yes it is 'running' but it's unplayable. And the only level that loads is the red crystals one. And no I haven't studied game design or anything like that but I've played a lot of games and I'm not an idiot. Now the fact is they have released and are charging for an alpha of a game that only runs on high end computers and specific graphics cards, and have been doing so for however many years the alpha has been out. And from the way it's been going I'm betting it's gonna take another 20 years just to get the game released seeing as it's in exactly the same state it was a year or two ago. I changed my mind, I want a refund.

It seems like whatever answer anyone gives, you just want to talk shit anyways.

1. Are you a game developer? have you been working on a game for 5 years and know the processes of which it takes to do so and what priorities to set first? Or how hard it is to do the things you are asking on a whim? if you are please inform me.

2. It's in the same state? really? like the same one? wow, i didn't know from the constant changes every week or so :roll: .

3. THE ALPHAS ARE A PRIVILEGE! In essence you are per-ordering a game, and getting the see the development AS A PRIVILEGE.

4. There are COUNTLESS threads on "will this game run" on this forum, I don't think a quick search would have been that hard to do... i mean there are 4 of them on the first page of this board.

5. I think accessibility should be one of the last things that needs to get finished, the gameplay and mechanics should be PRIORITY for an ALPHA STATE (THIS IS NOT BETA)

6. Your name is Sephiroth. Your argument is invalid.

slay me prince of darkness. destroyer of worlds.

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Endoperez
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Re: I'm a little pissed off...

Post by Endoperez » Sat Feb 16, 2013 7:12 pm

They're charging for their time. They couldn't have afforded to spend 4 years on this game without getting money beforehand. They decided to go with preorders. To keep the development open and preorderers interested, they are sharing their work-in-progress alphas that are often broken in some ways. As I said before, you pay for the FINAL product. The alphas are just a bonus, something to do while you wait. You shouldn't expect the alphas to be worth that money. When it started, they weren't worth ANY money (for a player).

It will likely take quite some time before the game will run on anything but a relatively powerful computer, or until the game is finished. In the worst case, it might end up taking so long all the interest fades and the development stops and it never reaches the complete status.
Personally, I don't think so. You may. I have nothing against that. If you feel your money is being wasted, you should ask for a refund.

However, I'll say one thing. The game has taken huge leaps forward, not in last the last year or two, but in the last MONTH or two. They seem to be working at the first parts of the actual game, now, instead of engine and background work. I don't know how far they will polish the arena mode for now, but it will most probably be in a very interesting state a few months from now.

If you ever feel like taking another look at Overgrowth, hopefully you don't let this first bad experience weigh in on that. It is quite a fun game.

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Anton
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Re: I'm a little pissed off...

Post by Anton » Sat Feb 16, 2013 7:22 pm

Sephiroth7 wrote:Yes it is 'running' but it's unplayable. And the only level that loads is the red crystals one. And no I haven't studied game design or anything like that but I've played a lot of games and I'm not an idiot. Now the fact is they have released and are charging for an alpha of a game that only runs on high end computers and specific graphics cards, and have been doing so for however many years the alpha has been out. And from the way it's been going I'm betting it's gonna take another 20 years just to get the game released seeing as it's in exactly the same state it was a year or two ago. I changed my mind, I want a refund.
The devs can be reached by emailing them at [email protected], if you include the transaction ID from your purchase, they can help identify your pre-order more easily to complete a refund, which they will be happy to do.

As Endoperez mentioned, the pre-order model is a tricky one, because you are ordering a final product, which is not available today. Today, they allow you to play with what they have done so far, which is a very interesting path, and one which they can't spend the time to make it compatible with all systems. That process will come, and they want to make it as accessible as possible, but if they do it too early, they will often have to come back and change it, over and over, which will slow down the whole development process.

If you continue to follow their development, they will most likely release a video or update when they discuss making the game more compatible, that might be the time to buy it for you. Either way, they will definitely help you out to the best of their ability, including issuing a refund if you so desire.

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Jaz
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Re: I'm a little pissed off...

Post by Jaz » Sat Feb 16, 2013 7:46 pm

Just to clarify one point which I absolutely hate you for.

Yes, carrying 6 weapons IS more important than the game running on all machines right now and still will be slightly more important when the game is finally released. Features like that make a massive difference to the gameplay and are very important, even if they don't seem like it at first.

Oh and also, you never bought the alpha. You bought the final version of the game. That's what a pre-order is. The release threads even state that the releases are unofficial! The alphas aren't even proper releases. They're freebies that we pre-orderers get. They're only really as valid as getting free food when you visit a party. They're not really a part of the party. They're just extras at the side.

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last
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Re: I'm a little pissed off...

Post by last » Sat Feb 16, 2013 7:54 pm

I really hope that this video will help others to make sure that they do a little more research before they preorder something.

TotalBiscuit speaks on the subject of pre-ordering video games and the business behind the system, following the critical panning of Aliens: Colonial Marines.

Luckily for us there are much more information out in the internet for the Overgrowth than some other game that have preorder option. And getting refund is probably much easier.

Sephiroth7
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Re: I'm a little pissed off...

Post by Sephiroth7 » Sat Feb 16, 2013 7:55 pm

Jaz wrote:Just to clarify one point which I absolutely hate you for.

Yes, carrying 6 weapons IS more important than the game running on all machines right now and still will be slightly more important when the game is finally released. Features like that make a massive difference to the gameplay and are very important, even if they don't seem like it at first..
How?! If only, say, 30% of people who would want to buy it can actually run it well on their computer surely the company would make more money if they spent more time making the game available for a larger proportion of people?

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