Overgrowth on Wikipedia

[rudel_ic]

And there you have it, some dude tagged it. This was inevitable. That's what I'm saying.

If anybody wants to prove notability, you really just need to mention tigsource, RPS, gamershell and Gamespot for references concerning notability. I obviously won't do it because I expect far more coverage by major outlets for a game to be noteable.

There is no article about Iji (released). There is no article about Sushi Bar Samurai (in development). There is no article about 1968 Tunnel Rats (video game) (unreleased).

On SBS and 1968TR, there are multiple big sources reporting et cetera. So they are noteable. There is actual gameplay footage on the web. SBS was at PAX and the developer is well-known in the industry, 1968TR is by Boll. Just think about it for a moment.

[Jeff]

rudel, I would love to demonstrate notability, but we are not allowed to edit our own wikipedia entry. Noerrorsfound earlier in the thread is the one who tagged it as not notable. I have responded to his complaints with giving him a few sites that mentioned Overgrowth and he said he would add them to the entry.

The irony is that I could have easily just made the article myself, done all of the stuff, and it would have been fine. The second you start playing by the wikipedia rules, bam, you get tags thrown on your page, people want to get it deleted, and you have your own fans accusing you of not being notable enough for a free, user edited encyclopedia.

I simply did a search for Overgrowth on Google and saw that the wikipedia entry for "Small bowel bacterial overgrowth syndrome" shows up next to our listing because wikipedia.com/overgrowth redirects to that page. If you honestly think that overgrowth is so small and unworthy of wikipedia that "Small bowel bacterial overgrowth syndrome" is the most accurate entry for "Overgrowth", then by all means, delete the page, etc. That is simply our motivation for this wikipedia article - no secret marketing agenda.

Thanks for your support.

[Renegade_Turner]

*Some nonsense about why a Wikipedia article can't be made about Overgrowth.*

Come off it. You sound ridiculous. Wikipedia even has an article about blaas, a type of bun that's made here in Waterford (a tiny place).

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Blaa

So come off this whole "you're not allowed do that!" crap. I'm not even going to waste my time giving you reasons for why what you said was so dumb. They can do what they want, feck off.

[Glabbit]

Apart from the feck off bit, I completely agree with Ren here...
I don't see any reason why we shouldn't have a full-fledged wiki with all we know about overgr— lugartoo, updating and growing as lugartoo intself progresses.
On this same page could, indeed, be some neat concept art pics, maybe a few reference pics of lugaru, some extra info, and, of course, the link to the lugartoo minisite.

[Renegade_Turner]

Wikipedia is a quick go-to place to get a summary of different things you hear about.

When I heard about games like Dead Space and Left 4 Dead, where did I go straight away to check them out? Wikipedia.

Say someone hears about Overgrowth and wants a quick summary of what it has to offer and what kind of game it's going to be. Shouldn't we give them a Wikipedia page to read? Even a small one?

It's not like the internet is going to run out of space, buddy.

[rudel_ic]

Come off it. You sound ridiculous. Wikipedia even has an article about blaas, a type of bun that's made here in Waterford (a tiny place).

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Blaa

So come off this whole "you're not allowed do that!" crap. They can do what they want, feck off.

Can't you handle dispute, Renegade_Turner? What are you doing on the internet then?

I'm not saying it shouldn't be made at all. After all, I'm not the guy that says what can be done or not on the internet / on Wikipedia.
I'm giving you insight into why I won't edit the article until the game becomes noteable for a big audience. I think it's premature to put the game into an encyclopedia. What's so anti about that? I think it's reasonable.

They can't do what they want. That is such a stupid statement.

Blaas are a 300+ years old specialty. Of course they are as noteable as any other 300+ years old specialty from any place in the world.

As is bacterial overgrowth. It's a huge problem. It is ultimately more important than a video game. You can't really argue about that. But it's hardly the more accurate article for the search term 'Overgrowth', obviously.

Now that there IS an article, I'd be the last person to delete anything. What makes you think that? I'm a damn fan! I'm the last person that would delete info about this game.

[John]

Here are a few Overgrowth articles from around the world:
France: http://www.jeuxvideopc.com/jeux/descrip ... growth.php
Hungary: http://www.gamechannel.hu/cikk/hirblock ... ziulafuben
Italy: http://www.aimargini.com/ (middle of the page)
http://tgmonline.futuregamer.it/news/se ... 0919123652
Turkey: http://www.ixiroyun.com/3523-overgrowth-duyuruldu/
Germany: http://www.pcgames.de/pid,217892/PC-Spi ... vergrowth/

Poland: http://gry.onet.pl/1828421,,Anons_gry_O ... omosc.html

We have also had about 25 visits from people in Kazakhstan. Great success! Thanks for your interest guys. Keep up the good work!

[Renegade_Turner]

300 year old speciality lol. Feck off, blaas are ridiculous.

I can perfectly handle dispute. I dispute everything you are saying. Feck off, they can do what they want. Their game, their rules. I'm sorry but rules is rules. Wah wah wah sob sob sob moan moan moan. Stop being so silly, it was a silly nitpicky issue to raise. No money in the account, feck off.

[Ozymandias]

Can we kindly stop all the BS? Rudel has a point... though, I'm pretty sure that the development team is going to have something noteworthy to put out that can be added to the wiki perhaps.

As for me, I don't think I could handle writing anything on Wiki because.... I just wouldn't be. Now that the article is there you might as well add to it.

[agarrett]

Small bowel bacterial overgrowth syndrome ...

That's sad.

[rudel_ic]

300 year old speciality lol. Feck off, blaas are ridiculous.

I can perfectly handle dispute. I dispute everything you are saying. Feck off, they can do what they want. Their game, their rules. I'm sorry but rules is rules. Wah wah wah sob sob sob moan moan moan. Stop being so silly, it was a silly nitpicky issue to raise. No money in the account, feck off.

You could as well say fuck. There is really no difference at this point.

You're just trying to flash with witty nonsense, bolded and colored text and all. What is your deal anyway?

I'm not silly and the issue is not nitpicky. What I'm saying is that I'm not fond of an encyclopedia that includes info about games when there's not much to be seen apart from early-stage material.

What do you know about Overgrowth? You've got the awesome concept art. So you want to extrapolate gameplay from this? You've got the blogposts about engine features. So you want to guess what this means for the final game?

We don't even know how we're going to fight or how the story-gameplay-relationship is. We don't know about characters, equipment, whether or not there's an inventory, multiplayer, sysreqs, price point, what the deal is with the upload-to-YouTube feature... I can go on and on. It's just blurry right now. That is why you see no info on the linked sites everybody mentions, apart from what we can read on the Wolfire blog. And there's not much on there, essentially.

Not that there's anything wrong with that. That's how Wolfire thinks it should work, and I'm fine with that. But extrapolating a verifiable encyclopedic entry from that apart from "Overgrowth, the new Wolfire Software game, successor to Lugaru, announced in Sep08" is simply stretching it. I concluded above that that's not an encyclopedic entry at all.

[zamzx]

I agree with Rudel. It's a great idea, but a bit premature.

[Zantalos]

I'm sure you're aware of this. You can't really say your game is hyped right now. I think the public awareness is practically nonexistent, regardless of the referenced articles above. That's what you have to work at, so that a Wikipedia article comes naturally. You now jumped the gun and artificially created demand for the article. It's obviously a tactic.

Jeez so much controversy about creating a Wikipedia page. What is the problem here. "Oh this is obviously a tactic by Wolfire games to promote their game ", what an asshole, what an asshole thing to say, who cares! Why are you accusing them of all this crap. There is obviously a need for a Wikipedia page. With all these sites, basically any site that covers indie games, a lot of people are going to hear about Overgrowth and the first thing they are going to do is look it up on Wikipedia to read more about what the game is. What is so wrong with a Wikipedia page that will tell them what the game is about. If I hear about a new game and want to look it up on Wikipedia, I should expect to find an article telling me about this game. This isn't a marketing ploy this is the bare essentials. People want information, Wolfire Games wants to give people that information, what is so hard to understand?

I just think this is premature.

Mentioning the other games doesn't really help here. To compare your game to AAA titles like these, you've got a lot to prove. Well, apart from DNF, of course.

What would really make sense is building awareness by contacting kotaku, gametrailers, 1Up and so forth and putting effort into PR, for example with alpha footage or whatever it is you have. If they do not react, that's maybe an indicator how noteable your game is at this point.

And who are you trying to give advice? You have no experience at all to be giving out advice to Wolfire about these matters. What do you know about building awareness anyways? You have no idea. Were you the one who created that game and sent Gametrailers all your alpha footage to show off your game? People don't have to give crap out when they announce their new game. Where was the alpha footage when they announced Mafia 2? Do you know how completely retarded it would be to give out Alpha footage to Gametrailers, a game trailers site? They wouldn't give a crap, they don't write articles. What do you think would happen? They would just post it on the front page. People don't care about seeing alpha footage. Most developers understand this and try not to leak their game play. Well it seems you don't get it, but Wolfire should listen to you anyways? I'm afraid you have a lot less to give than you think.

[noerrorsfound]

Wow, this has escalated quite a bit. I'm going to add some of those sources and improve the article as soon as I get Gentoo installed and running properly. I will have to read some more about it since I only came back here after remembering Lugaru (I found my old forum account here ) and wanting to check on v2's progress.

[rudel_ic]

Jeez so much controversy about creating a Wikipedia page. What is the problem here. "Oh this is obviously a tactic by Wolfire games to promote their game ", what an asshole, what an asshole thing to say, who cares! Why are you accusing them of all this crap.

You are naive to think stuff like this wouldn't happen every day. And I care. That's why I am thankful that Jeff stated it wouldn't be a tactic.
Why do you say it is an asshole thing to say, but state at the same time nobody cares? You're not thinking straight. Make up your mind.

There is obviously a need for a Wikipedia page. With all these sites, basically any site that covers indie games, a lot of people are going to hear about Overgrowth and the first thing they are going to do is look it up on Wikipedia to read more about what the game is. What is so wrong with a Wikipedia page that will tell them what the game is about. If I hear about a new game and want to look it up on Wikipedia, I should expect to find an article telling me about this game. This isn't a marketing ploy this is the bare essentials. People want information, Wolfire Games wants to give people that information, what is so hard to understand?

There's nothing that's hard to understand about it. Wikipedia isn't a gaming news site. End of story.

And who are you trying to give advice? You have no experience at all to be giving out advice to Wolfire about these matters. What do you know about building awareness anyways? You have no idea. Were you the one who created that game and sent Gametrailers all your alpha footage to show off your game? People don't have to give crap out when they announce their new game. Where was the alpha footage when they announced Mafia 2? Do you know how completely retarded it would be to give out Alpha footage to Gametrailers, a game trailers site? They wouldn't give a crap, they don't write articles. What do you think would happen? They would just post it on the front page. People don't care about seeing alpha footage. Most developers understand this and try not to leak their game play. Well it seems you don't get it, but Wolfire should listen to you anyways? I'm afraid you have a lot less to give than you think.

I'm afraid I have a lot more to give than you think, but we're not going to discuss that here.
Nobody is talking about giving away alpha footage. I am talking about putting effort into PR with alpha footage (there is a difference). That's really common.

Right now, they're putting effort into PR with CONCEPT ART! Don't you think it makes sense for the video-centric public to get a teaser out there?

You're obviously not really up to the discussion.
"Most developers understand this and try not to leak their game play."
You don't have a damn clue how all this works, are talking out of your ass and not looking good doing it.

I'd really like you to back off at a point where you get personal. I'm not here so you can ask me who I am to say smart things. What kind of concept is that anyway? 'Yo, your nose is crooked, you're the financial expert.'
You have to take what I say as-is. That is the least respect you can give me. Calling me an asshole, asking me how I got my expertise, saying I have no idea, calling me silly, telling me to fuck off and so forth - that really isn't the level I'm willing to discuss at.

Edit: Oh, and Mafia 2 is a completely different league. Especially concerning marketing, connections, budget and so forth.