Player/AI Technique Gaps

[Fetterkey]

In the current version of Lugaru, there are certain techniques (rabbit running, leg cannon, knife throw/rip, walljump kick, ground kick, SLAIN, corpse throw, knife puncture combo, straight punch) that the computer seems unable to perform. This, in my eyes leads to an unnatural imbalance in game play and grants the player a sort of "Fake Difficulty" advantage; he or she simply has more moves available, many of which are extremely valuable and can even score instant kills. In particular, the knife throw is a very basic move that enemies should probably be able to employ. It's not like the counters don't already exist (side-flip, roll, catch knife out of air). For knife-wielding wolves, the knife is actually worse than their natural weapons. I think if a wolf catches a thrown knife, he should just throw it back, Big Trouble in Little China style.

This problem will be further amplified if Overgrowth includes more ranged attacks and the AI is still incapable of using them. Besides, as thrown knives and even arrows can be blocked, caught, or deflected in real life, not to mention dodged, this would add more potential techniques and interesting weapon matchups for both the player and the enemy. Allowing enemies to use some of the player's other more powerful moves would also greatly help both realism and game balance.

[nutcracker]

If insane wolf could ground kick you would die :l

[Fetterkey]

If insane wolf could ground kick you would die :l

Obviously a balance would need to be found; that being said, I think that the player's movelist is too powerful at present, and some, if not all, of his techniques should be given to AI opponents as well.

[Nitsua]

That would take some insane balancing.

[Ozymandias]

Granted, some certain AI might not be able to do certain things (I.E. walljump and stuff) because they just don't do that sort of things. Dogs would probably be an example of this, but a cat, for instance, might be able to to it to chase after you.

It's odd, cause in most games I see the AI can do things the player can't do, mainly cause of engine limitations and all that stuff...

[invertin]

Alot of it is because of balance, but some of it is concept. Think about how the AI behave in Lugaru, when would they need walljump?

the knife throw is because of balance though, it would be annoying to walk past an enemy you didn't notice and have him knife your back.

Though if you wanted something close the wolf teleport is just as fast.

[Fetterkey]

Alot of it is because of balance, but some of it is concept. Think about how the AI behave in Lugaru, when would they need walljump?

Probably never. Of the moves I listed, I think AI players should be able to do only the straight punch, leg cannon, and knife throw (without rip). The ground attacks would not be particularly fun to experience, nor would the puncture technique (since I believe it's an instant kill with no counter), and the corpse-throw doesn't really make sense for enemies, but the other techniques do not seem as if they would be particularly unbalanced. Reversals exist for the straight punch and leg cannon, and the knife can be grabbed or dodged. Knife throws should also probably be blockable with weapons, though that's not hugely important.

[Ozymandias]

Knife throws should also probably be blockable with weapons, though that's not hugely important.

In overgrowth, that would probably be possible. Say, for instance, if you could snatch knives out of the air like a wolf. if you have a weapon in your hand you can't just hold the knife and the sword at the same time, so instead it plays a very shot animation of the sword knocking the thrown blade to the side, or to the ground, etc.

But yes, some things exist to make it more fair to the player, and make the player feel more special too. As soon as the AI can do a bunch more special moves than you then you feel like crap (for instance, if the -only- think you could do in Lugaru was the regular punch and regular jumping then you'd feel like crap with all these kung-fu bunnies running around. Granted it's a pretty extreme example, but I hope you get the idea.)

[Kestril]

Alot of it is because of balance, but some of it is concept. Think about how the AI behave in Lugaru, when would they need walljump?

Probably never. Of the moves I listed, I think AI players should be able to do only the straight punch, leg cannon, and knife throw (without rip). The ground attacks would not be particularly fun to experience, nor would the puncture technique (since I believe it's an instant kill with no counter), and the corpse-throw doesn't really make sense for enemies, but the other techniques do not seem as if they would be particularly unbalanced. Reversals exist for the straight punch and leg cannon, and the knife can be grabbed or dodged. Knife throws should also probably be blockable with weapons, though that's not hugely important.

Eh! I see you and your forum hopping. >.>. Now you have me coming here, dagnabit.

I agree on those points above, because in Lugaru, It's not what moves you have, it's how you use them. The fact that your enemies have the same arsenal challenges the player and introduces a real sense of accomplishment I've rarely seen in other games.

[Darwinian]

there is a move that only the computer can perform that i wish turner could do its that punch counter where they block you and punch you right back and i dont thing you can counter it, id love to be able to do it back

[Kestril]

there is a move that only the computer can perform that i wish turner could do its that punch counter where they block you and punch you right back and i dont thing you can counter it, id love to be able to do it back

Actually, rabbits don't use the single punch so you can't use that move against them. However, it is possible against wolves. When they claw at you, quickly crouch (that blocks their claw.) then quickly punch back. It's a light punch, so it won't knock them back, but it will stun them allowing you to follow up with a different attack.

[Blorx]

Granted, some certain AI might not be able to do certain things (I.E. walljump and stuff) because they just don't do that sort of things. Dogs would probably be an example of this, but a cat, for instance, might be able to to it to chase after you.

It's odd, cause in most games I see the AI can do things the player can't do, mainly cause of engine limitations and all that stuff...

ha. i can see cats just climbing the friggin wall
bears on the other hand would have to be significantly larger than Turner and might as well just be able to claw him at that height.

also...claws + leg cannon = dear god have mercy

[BunnyWithStick]

If you've ever done a leg cannon with wolfieisgod, you'll know it does blunt damage.

Doesn't stop wolf strength from sending enemies flying faaaaaaar, though.

[Fetterkey]

Knife throws should also probably be blockable with weapons, though that's not hugely important.

But yes, some things exist to make it more fair to the player, and make the player feel more special too. As soon as the AI can do a bunch more special moves than you then you feel like crap (for instance, if the -only- think you could do in Lugaru was the regular punch and regular jumping then you'd feel like crap with all these kung-fu bunnies running around. Granted it's a pretty extreme example, but I hope you get the idea.)

To be honest, the straight punch and knife throw aren't exactly special fancy moves or anything. Ninja throw, maybe; standard throw, no.

[Ozymandias]

Umm... that's my point... if those are the -only- moves you could do you'd feel pretty inferior...