Martial Arts Video References for Overgrowth

[Aleol]

A sort of just-for-fun video, but I can't find any other good examples of armored fighting. little known fact: boxing originated in the middle ages! To be used by combatants! and wrestling for that matter.....



There are a lot of misconceptions about plate armor as being too bulky to be used in combat, or too cumbersome to be able to punch or hit, but this does how easy it is to move in plate.

While not the BEST quality, this video shows some of the fighting with poleaxes and swords... and fists and feet i suppose. I think getting hit by a hand with a large metal glove would hurt. While they don't really look like they're much about the weapons, It does demonstrate the maneuverability and durability of plate.





lol










The Dogs better be awesome

I think I'm making my point. And now, Longsword techniques!



A few posts ago, I made a post concerning the balance of the longsword, and where it's center of balance was. I had originally put that it was one to three inches away from the crossguard, but after testing my personal swords' balance (I own two) they were about a foot away. After re-researching it, it turns out I was right in my original assertion, and regret the misinformation. My own swords are fairly badly balanced

[Endoperez]

A few posts ago, I made a post concerning the balance of the longsword, and where it's center of balance was. I had originally put that it was one to three inches away from the crossguard, but after testing my personal swords' balance (I own two) they were about a foot away. After re-researching it, it turns out I was right in my original assertion, and regret the misinformation. My own swords are fairly badly balanced

Nice videos! Full metal armour will be exceedinly rare in Overgrowth, but yeah, I don't think there should be much of a downside to them. If the lethal/bleeding wounds that kill, nonlethal/fist wounds that drop you unconscious distinction from Lugaru is still in, perhaps armor would prevent some damage and convert all the rest to nonlethal.

Arma has a great article about the physics of swords. It doesn't seem to mention two-handed swords specifically, but if you're interested in the mathematical side of swords this is probably interesting.

http://www.thearma.org/spotlight/GTA/mo ... mpacts.htm

[Aleol]

A few posts ago, I made a post concerning the balance of the longsword, and where it's center of balance was. I had originally put that it was one to three inches away from the crossguard, but after testing my personal swords' balance (I own two) they were about a foot away. After re-researching it, it turns out I was right in my original assertion, and regret the misinformation. My own swords are fairly badly balanced

Nice videos! Full metal armour will be exceedinly rare in Overgrowth, but yeah, I don't think there should be much of a downside to them. If the lethal/bleeding wounds that kill, nonlethal/fist wounds that drop you unconscious distinction from Lugaru is still in, perhaps armor would prevent some damage and convert all the rest to nonlethal.

Arma has a great article about the physics of swords. It doesn't seem to mention two-handed swords specifically, but if you're interested in the mathematical side of swords this is probably interesting.

http://www.thearma.org/spotlight/GTA/mo ... mpacts.htm

It is a very interesting article! I read it a while ago, and I might read it again when I have time...

Anyway, that thing about the full metal armor being rare doesn't make much sense to me. Surely they've developed the ability to smelt and forge full armor sets for the more wealthy.... wait, maybe that's why it's rare? In any case, even a metal plate covering the chest would be cheaper and a hell of a lot more protection than leather.

[Endoperez]

Anyway, that thing about the full metal armor being rare doesn't make much sense to me. Surely they've developed the ability to smelt and forge full armor sets for the more wealthy.... wait, maybe that's why it's rare? In any case, even a metal plate covering the chest would be cheaper and a hell of a lot more protection than leather.

They probably weren't talking about metal armour in general, but the form-fitted metal armour done by specialized armourers. The cloth or leather armor is good enough to stop arrows and such. Metal armour takes more work, and specialized work at that, and it doesn't stop once the metal plates are ready. Only about one fifth of the cost of armour comes from the making of the plates themselves.

Cuirass of proof with pauldrons:
plates: 5s 6d
finishing, rivets, and straps: 7s 6d
selling price 26s

Lance armor:
plates 14s 5d
finishing, et cetera 40s
selling price 80s

From here:
http://www.fordham.edu/halsall/source/m ... html#ARMOR

[Aleol]

Well, armor is in itself something that protects, so i suppose you're right. But arrows are insanely hard to defend against

Arrows are actually very powerful weapons; even using only 60 lb bows, you can punch through armor and knock a man off of his horse, and pretty much kill a man. And historically, most combat bows were either that powerful or more powerful. But in any case, if you get hit by an arrow, you probably won't survive long, even with the best arrow defense, close to a samurai's armor (which were more to entangle the barbed arrows to prevent them from doing as much damage) a crossbow will punch through it like it was made of paper. Actually, crossbows were more or less designed to take out armored targets, and in england, the longbow completely removed cavalry charges as an effective combat maneuver because the men-at-arms died.

My Point is that bows are very powerful weapons, but they require quite a bit of skill to use. And any amount of armor (besides plate in certain circumstances) basically becomes moot once a powerful enough bow comes into play.

[Endoperez]

Arrows are actually very powerful weapons; even using only 60 lb bows, you can punch through armor and knock a man off of his horse,

I'm not a historian, but what I have gathered tells me that this is not so. Gambeson, the cloth armor, protected against arrows. Maille, made from links, may stop arrows but that depends a lot on the quality of the chain links, the arrowhead, and variety of other factors. Well-made plate armor from high-quality steel usually directs arrows away with it's rounded shape, and when there's a straight hit, the padding and/or maille underneath probably negate most arrows that achieve penetration.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D3997HZuWjk
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q-Xp56uVyxs

Then again, tests performed against an armor that's been fastened to an immobile target will skew the results, tests performed from a wrong distance will skew the results, tests performed with armor, arrows or bows of wrong quality will skew the results, etc etc. It is certainly possible to get an arrow to penetrate through armor:

Hunting with the Bow and Arrow, by Saxton Pope. http://www.gutenberg.org/dirs/etext05/8hbow10.txt
"To test a steel bodkin pointed arrow such as was used at the battle of Cressy, I borrowed a shirt of chain armor from the Museum, a beautiful specimen made in Damascus in the 15th Century. It weighed twenty-five pounds and was in perfect condition. One of the attendants in the Museum offered to put it on and allow me to shoot at him. Fortunately, I declined his proffered services and put it on a wooden box, padded with burlap to represent clothing. Indoors at a distance of seven yards, I discharged an arrow at it with such force that sparks flew from the links of steel as from a forge. The bodkin point and shaft went through the thickest portion of the back, penetrated an inch of wood and bulged out the opposite side of the armor shirt. The attendant turned a pale green. An arrow of this type can be shot about two hundred yards, and would be deadly up to the full limit of its flight."
Personally, I doubt the arrow would penetrate as well from the distance of two hundred yards, as it does from seven! Still, it proves that it IS indeed possible to shoot an arrow through some kinds of armor, in some cases.

If you're interested, feel free to look at threads where people more knowledgeable than I discuss these things: 1, 2, 3, 4.

[Aleol]

... I don't know about you, but I think I'd have the wind knocked out of me if I was hit by anything at 140 mph. Longbows have a draw weight of 100-180 lbs!

.... YEAH, I admit, Bows aren't really my specialty. But I know for a fact that crossbows (med-heavy ones) are deadly, and require little training, so it would make more sense for those to be in this game than regular bows.

[Anton]

YEAH, I admit, Bows aren't really my specialty. But I know for a fact that crossbows (med-heavy ones) are deadly, and require little training, so it would make more sense for those to be in this game than regular bows.

Unfortunately, we still don't know if projectile/ranged weapons will make it into the main game. David expressed some issues once about the balance of them in a game, and his main focus is on great hand to hand combat. (Of course modding will be a whole different story...)

[Noxa189]

I found some good references for parkour, which I really think would be cool in Overgrowth.



Rolling after you land from a big fall.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ipq2p2xQ ... re=related
(for some reason this one wasn't embedding properly)

Kong vault, for getting over obstacles and sometimes for distance.



Speed vault, for getting over obstacles fast and keeping your speed when you land.

[kehaar]

Wow. I forgot just how far David Bell's jumps were.

A rabbit doing that maybe 7 or 10x in the game would be so epic. Maybe there could be a limit, like in Lugaru, but more sophisticated: if you land with a correctly timed roll, you can survive an insane drop. Don't time your roll: SPLAT!

[Noxa189]

Wow. I forgot just how far David Bell's jumps were.

A rabbit doing that maybe 7 or 10x in the game would be so epic. Maybe there could be a limit, like in Lugaru, but more sophisticated: if you land with a correctly timed roll, you can survive an insane drop. Don't time your roll: SPLAT!

YES.
And when you add in the vaults and the(ALREADY IN THE GAME) wall runs and grabs, you have EPIC right there.

[La Moose]

I just gotta say that it makes me feel happy to see so many people who are interested in the ancient arts.

One martial art of ancient Greece was called Pankration, which was basically a more "Refined" version of the non combat greek wresting.

It was basically an early form of MMA in that the combatants used both boxing and grappling techniques, it was practiced in full contact and no rules engagements.

http://www.answers.com/topic/pankration

[Aleol]

I just gotta say that it makes me feel happy to see so many people who are interested in the ancient arts.

One martial art of ancient Greece was called Pankration, which was basically a more "Refined" version of the non combat greek wresting.

It was basically an early form of MMA in that the combatants used both boxing and grappling techniques, it was practiced in full contact and no rules engagements.

http://www.answers.com/topic/pankration

hmm..... sounds interesting! You should post some videos.

YEAH, I admit, Bows aren't really my specialty. But I know for a fact that crossbows (med-heavy ones) are deadly, and require little training, so it would make more sense for those to be in this game than regular bows.

Unfortunately, we still don't know if projectile/ranged weapons will make it into the main game. David expressed some issues once about the balance of them in a game, and his main focus is on great hand to hand combat. (Of course modding will be a whole different story...)

True, I had forgotten he had said that :/ In any case, it wouldn't be huge loss if they weren't in the game, Because I doubt Turner could use them that well anyway (Bows require quite a bit of training to use) Then again, hand to hand combat with missed or stolen arrows would be awesome.

[Endoperez]

Armored men fighting with pollaxes. Cool stuff, and this video explains very well just how fearsome a fully armored soldier would have been on a battlefield.

[Endoperez]

Russian Systema stuff with weapons. Mostly knife stuff, with sabers, sticks and nasty-looking short whip also making an appearance.