Wolfire Development Blog!

Zantalos · Post by **Zantalos** » Fri May 12, 2006 9:50 pm

Hey what do people call these shadows?
This is really cool, I just got Ghost Recon Advanced Warfighter (GRAW) and it can't even show these, this is fantastic! Now, would these be called soft shadows, dynamic shadows, volumetric shadows, or is it a entirely different sub-division? A completely new technology for shadows?

All I know is that these look unnaturally realistic, it's freaky man! And it only took you a day? What the heck, that's awesome David! You're amazing!

Post by **David** » Fri May 12, 2006 9:57 pm

These shadows are shadow maps; the model is rendered from the point of view of the light, and then projected onto the ground. It does not have self-shadowing, but works for very realistic ground shadows using blurring based on distance to simulate diffraction and ambient light

Zantalos · Post by **Zantalos** » Sat May 13, 2006 3:05 am

Man that's so complicated. Yet, the way you did it, it seemed extremely simple! Rendering shadows right from the light source (I don't know what I'm talking about), that's ingenious. I can't believe other games don't use this, this makes lighting so much cooler, the shadows fade! Until now, I've never seen shadows fading! It's usually just an easily rendered blob or the perfect outline of the model (I know, the blob is toggled for slow computers).

So this means this will only affect the ground? Self shadows won't be in lugaru 2, or will it require a whole new layer to render the self shadows in? Of course, I won't be dissapointed in no self-shadowing. The focus is always on the ground effects, and this light scattering makes it incredible!

I just spent lots of the day looking over the next-gen games at E3, and Lugaru 2 is definately going to be a next-gen game. And in lots of ways, Lugaru 2 surpasses them in awesome effects and tremendouse style.
You guys know they created foot placement for their games now? (the new basketball game Sony showed off, uses these kinds of procedural animations) And that's unbelevable! They're using technology David had thought up nearly a year ago! Even big game companies can't get the jump on new software, David creates them just as fast (It looks like David makes them faster). Just watch, a year from now, campanies are going to start using these kinds of shadows on all their games because of this.

Shadows for next generation games, note the diffraction. (still awesome games by the way Titan Quest and Huxley)

zip · Post by **zip** » Sun May 14, 2006 11:51 pm

Zantalos wrote:Man that's so complicated. Yet, the way you did it, it seemed extremely simple! Rendering shadows right from the light source (I don't know what I'm talking about), that's ingenious. I can't believe other games don't use this, this makes lighting so much cooler, the shadows fade! Until now, I've never seen shadows fading! It's usually just an easily rendered blob or the perfect outline of the model (I know, the blob is toggled for slow computers).

So this means this will only affect the ground? Self shadows won't be in lugaru 2, or will it require a whole new layer to render the self shadows in? Of course, I won't be dissapointed in no self-shadowing. The focus is always on the ground effects, and this light scattering makes it incredible!

I just spent lots of the day looking over the next-gen games at E3, and Lugaru 2 is definately going to be a next-gen game. And in lots of ways, Lugaru 2 surpasses them in awesome effects and tremendouse style.
You guys know they created foot placement for their games now? (the new basketball game Sony showed off, uses these kinds of procedural animations) And that's unbelevable! They're using technology David had thought up nearly a year ago! Even big game companies can't get the jump on new software, David creates them just as fast (It looks like David makes them faster). Just watch, a year from now, campanies are going to start using these kinds of shadows on all their games because of this.
Shadows for next generation games, note the diffraction. (still awesome games by the way Titan Quest and Huxley)

http://blog.wolfire.com/?p=42
Look at the screens.. self shadowing very clearly visible.

Zantalos · Post by **Zantalos** » Mon May 15, 2006 12:59 am

Right, I didn't know what I was thinking when I was typing that. I had the pictures out and everything and still... whoops.

David wrote:It does not have self-shadowing, but works for very realistic ground shadows using blurring based on distance to simulate diffraction and ambient light

I dunno, I guess I was thinking about that instead, I forget (must have acute alzheimer's or something

)
So that means that fading will only be applied to the ground and not on yourself. Ok that makes sense, it sure does look nice.
Not to mention Ground Breaking Technology! That's right, another GBT this one is about shadows. David should like totally list the new features Lugaru 2 holds in the features, there's just so many of them.
I can name like --> Shadows, trees, frustum culling graphic optimizations, grass technology, physics base movement, motion bl- you know there's just so many new things, it's absolutely fantastic, what a game. I basically have to just look at the blog to see all this stuff, each one is fabulous, this is awesome. Oh man stop me now, this is too much, there's nothing you can even compare to Lugaru 2, this is so hyped up. I cannot even wait for summer to happen, and It's not even for my break from school work , it's for David's break from school work, this summer is going to be an interesting one indeed.

(and that goes for everyone else too. It's amazing that these guys can go to school or their job and still work on Lugaru. David has got two majors in college and he's doing this, that's incredible, that's insane!)

erazorhead · Post by **erazorhead** » Mon May 15, 2006 2:44 am

zip wrote:http://blog.wolfire.com/?p=42
Look at the screens.. self shadowing very clearly visible.

I think we're talking about two different things. There's certainly shading on Turner in the screenshots, but self-shadowing usually refers to something more specific. This is an example, as is this. Notice one part of a model casting a distinct shadow onto another part of the same model.

As David said just a few posts ago, "It does not have self-shadowing, but works for very realistic ground shadows using blurring based on distance to simulate diffraction and ambient light"

(Someone correct me if I'm wrong here :P )

Renegade_Turner · Post by **Renegade_Turner** » Tue May 16, 2006 11:13 am

I would say you are correct, erazorhead.

zip · Post by **zip** » Tue May 16, 2006 1:13 pm

Renegade_Turner wrote:I would say you are correct, erazorhead.

As would I =p
I misread what zantalos was saying, my bad.
Anyone else notice that the shadows in Titan Quest are super pixelated?

erazorhead · Post by **erazorhead** » Tue May 16, 2006 10:11 pm

i see a lot of next-gen games with super blocky shadows, it seems like. i always figured it was because tracing every model for a more accurate shadow used way too much cpu. i'd expect david has managed to code it so that this is not the case

Nuky · Post by **Nuky** » Thu May 18, 2006 10:19 am

Based on what he has said earlier, he has not started to fully optimize the engine yet. (except grass and ground and polygons, no?)

Correct me if I'm wrong.

Post by **David** » Fri May 19, 2006 2:34 am

More shadows!

http://blog.wolfire.com/

erazorhead · Post by **erazorhead** » Sat May 20, 2006 4:46 am

fuckin' amazing

Post by **Jeff** » Sat May 20, 2006 2:35 pm

I just got back from Cal and I was able to see the engine first hand. It is incredible. The water is the best water I have ever seen in a game... by far. The shadows are also the best. The sky is incredible. I was also very impressed with the tree engine and I can confirm that it is better than SpeedTree (tm).

leDoOd · Post by **leDoOd** » Sat May 20, 2006 2:40 pm

Can you guys download fraps or something to that extent to show us what it looks like in real time? Judging by the pictures so far, it is truely amazing... but we totally need to see them first-hand just to "get it", even though it IS in development stages.

Nuky · Post by **Nuky** » Tue May 23, 2006 2:26 pm

What I think is that David should make a tech demo soon (executable app/exe/*)...
for compatibilititity (damned be that word!) check on various systems