Zeitgeist Movies

Anything else
Post Reply
Gifted
Posts: 232
Joined: Tue Apr 07, 2009 12:29 pm

Zeitgeist Movies

Post by Gifted » Sat Dec 04, 2010 3:20 am

Hey guys,

I stumbled across some great youtube videos I thought I'd share. The first one is about religion, and the parallels that almost every major religion has in common. The second is about the terrorist attacks on 9/11.

I was already atheist, so I thought the first one was really interesting.



The 9/11 one, though, really made me extremely sick to my stomach. I almost feel like we're living in Orwell's 1984, we just don't know it. I know a lot of you don't live in America, but it's interesting none the less.


User avatar
rudel_ic
official Wolfire heckler
Posts: 2193
Joined: Sun Aug 28, 2005 11:19 pm
Location: Hamburg City
Contact:

Re: Zeitgeist Movies

Post by rudel_ic » Sat Dec 04, 2010 4:01 am

Well… Did you realize these are actually free full documentaries, not just 10-minute blurbs?
http://www.zeitgeistmovie.com/
P1: http://www.zeitgeistthefilm.com/ (Vimeo)
P2: http://www.zeitgeistaddendum.com/ (Vimeo)

They are about 2h long each.

Gifted
Posts: 232
Joined: Tue Apr 07, 2009 12:29 pm

Re: Zeitgeist Movies

Post by Gifted » Sat Dec 04, 2010 4:05 am

Thanks.

User avatar
rudel_ic
official Wolfire heckler
Posts: 2193
Joined: Sun Aug 28, 2005 11:19 pm
Location: Hamburg City
Contact:

Re: Zeitgeist Movies

Post by rudel_ic » Sat Dec 04, 2010 4:08 am

You're welcome. Don't just accept this as "gospel", though. Keep your thinking critical. A lot of it is conjecture and goes into conspiracy theory territory.

Still, very interesting stuff indeed.

Gifted
Posts: 232
Joined: Tue Apr 07, 2009 12:29 pm

Re: Zeitgeist Movies

Post by Gifted » Sat Dec 04, 2010 4:11 am

Of course. Just interesting to think about, although it can be really depressing if you think about it.

User avatar
Freshbite
Posts: 3256
Joined: Thu Jan 14, 2010 3:02 pm
Location: Stockholm, Sweden.

Re: Zeitgeist Movies

Post by Freshbite » Sat Dec 04, 2010 5:37 am

That is fairly interesting. The website actually links to some "Companion Source Guide" which explains all the parts of the first movie, and their origin.

It actually makes alot of sense, and seems very truthful.
Up to one self to decide whether to believe it or not, though.

User avatar
Renegade_Turner
Gramps
Posts: 6942
Joined: Tue Sep 27, 2005 11:59 am

Re: Zeitgeist Movies

Post by Renegade_Turner » Sat Dec 04, 2010 8:12 am

rudel_ic wrote:You're welcome. Don't just accept this as "gospel", though. Keep your thinking critical. A lot of it is conjecture and goes into conspiracy theory territory.

Still, very interesting stuff indeed.
Yeah, at first I thought it was all ground-breaking realisations that would shake the foundations of existence, but the more I thought about it the more I realise how much of it is nonsensical bullshit.

Problem is my friend Conor took it as gospel. He believed just about every word of it. He even stopped valuing his religious beliefs because of it. I was annoyed by how it almost seemed like brainwashing. The thing is it all seems so reasonable. When I tried to dissuade him as to its reliability he said I was just being closed-minded.

What I think it does is it hooks you in on the schtick about religion and Christianity being based on another religion from years ago and yada yada yada and then everything after that people are inclined to believe because the first bit was so convincing.

The problem I have with it is that it provides this "solution" to the way the world is that isn't really a solution at all. This system where people's reward for work is simply the fruits of their labour and money is out of the picture and all this bullshit. Hey, it's great stuff, sounds perfect, I'm sure it sounded fool-proof when the guy thought it up while he was tripping on acid, but it's so ridiculously unlikely. What they do is provide this "solution" but no way to achieve that solution.

Basically it's all political/economical/societal rhetoric.

User avatar
rudel_ic
official Wolfire heckler
Posts: 2193
Joined: Sun Aug 28, 2005 11:19 pm
Location: Hamburg City
Contact:

Re: Zeitgeist Movies

Post by rudel_ic » Sat Dec 04, 2010 8:41 am

Renegade_Turner wrote:What they do is provide this "solution" but no way to achieve that solution.
That's not entirely accurate. They have numerous proposals that are sound in theory. Particularly resource distribution is a valid approach to world hunger, there's no doubt about it. And a basic upgrade to our infrastructures, annihilation of wealth and a focus on scientific endeavors have all been generally deemed to be some of the steps towards bettering the world, and ourselves.

They even put up an organization to progress towards these steps.

It's neither complete hogwash nor the absolute truth, basically. Where it reaches its limits though is mostly the ambition of the individual. In actuality, most of us don't give a shit about bettering anything, really.

So at the point where the individual can take a shortcut towards wealth, he takes it, as has been witnessed over all these years of written history. We basically would need a reboot ourselves.

And we've got potential for such a reboot; particularly in western society, where young people are starting to realize their role as loanslaves, do not accept religion in a dogmatic manner anymore, favor open governments and all that.

I don't think the final steps will be made in our lifetime though. At least not without some kind of prototypical autarkic society that "clears the bushes", so to speak.

Anyway, the hint at critical thinking was more aimed at some of the details, and the indicated groupthink at banks and governments. My impression is that even in leading positions, the majority of actors basically blindly follows rulesets that lead to the outcomes the films investigate. So there might have been some kind of driving force at specific points in history, particularly times like the 1920s or the late Cold War. Taking that as a general theme is borderline paranoid though, at least from where I'm standing.

A lot of decisions are rather circumstancial also. So you have, for instance, the already initiated tumbling of the economy which leads to extraordinary struggles to keep businesses afloat. And ten years after, you have negative repercussions, and the fallacy would be to attribute intent to bring about said repercussions.

Just as it is with all kinds of conspiracy theories :)

User avatar
Renegade_Turner
Gramps
Posts: 6942
Joined: Tue Sep 27, 2005 11:59 am

Re: Zeitgeist Movies

Post by Renegade_Turner » Sat Dec 04, 2010 10:08 am

rudel_ic wrote:In actuality, most of us don't give a shit about bettering anything, really.
Exactly, that's part of my reason for being ragingly skeptical. It's a human reaction. Basically they'd have to force people to comply, and that would be averse to what they're trying to achieve. I respect the sentiment, but a few hearts being in the right place won't "save the world".

User avatar
rudel_ic
official Wolfire heckler
Posts: 2193
Joined: Sun Aug 28, 2005 11:19 pm
Location: Hamburg City
Contact:

Re: Zeitgeist Movies

Post by rudel_ic » Sat Dec 04, 2010 10:23 am

Renegade_Turner wrote:Exactly, that's part of my reason for being ragingly skeptical. It's a human reaction. Basically they'd have to force people to comply, and that would be averse to what they're trying to achieve. I respect the sentiment, but a few hearts being in the right place won't "save the world".
Yeah, it would have to start with the necessity to commit to it, or an obviously well-functioning example that leaves no moral choice.

This has happened before in history, so it's not completely impossible. It's just that with the powers that be and the general I-don't-give-a-fuck mindset we all carry around, it's highly unlikely.

I still subscribe to the idea though that Star Trek Utopia (which the proposed society basically boils down to) is actually our social vanishing point. As it is with anything grand-scale and revolutionary however, the way to it is so long and undefined that most do not feel obliged to get going. To a singular entity, under consideration of its mortality, the fact that it likely won't be reached in one's lifetime seems grounds enough to dismiss it from the personal POV.

So if that doesn't change, it's really all talk, nothing else. Which is a bummer.

User avatar
Renegade_Turner
Gramps
Posts: 6942
Joined: Tue Sep 27, 2005 11:59 am

Re: Zeitgeist Movies

Post by Renegade_Turner » Sat Dec 04, 2010 12:53 pm

rudel_ic wrote:To a singular entity, under consideration of its mortality, the fact that it likely won't be reached in one's lifetime seems grounds enough to dismiss it from the personal POV.

So if that doesn't change, it's really all talk, nothing else. Which is a bummer.
That's very well observed. It is an unfortunate truth about human life in general. Why build for the future if you won't be a part of it? Complete selflessness is required for that, and to this day I can never believe that someone is entirely selfless. Be it fame, reverence, appreciation, peace with one self or in simple terms the knowledge that you've done "the right thing" are all rewards which people who perform selfless acts wish for to varying degrees. I'm disbelieving of the chances of such a utopian future ever materialising, and you can imagine why. Thus, I see time spent building towards it as largely futile. Call me a cynic.

Post Reply