randomness

[Renegade_Turner]

I love Bakemonogatari...have you watched Katanagatari? I'm in the middle of watching that now, on the eighth episode. Exact same author. He really does like putting "story" at the end of his titles.

[StickIt]

"Randomness"? How about Anime General #101?

[Renegade_Turner]

We have a moaning Myrtle on our hands.

[Assaultman67]

I just finished katanagatari ...

I have ... opinions that need to be expressed ... but I'm trying to wait until ren has finished the series.

... May I suggest that for you, aswell? To take a break from watching finished animes from beginning to end and instead watch ongoing ones that releases an episode about once a week. It has helped me to keep up my interest.

I actually have watched quite a few shows that continue from week to week or basically have no end like Naruto, one piece, bleach, etc.

But I find that its more entertaining for me to watch a short series over a week or so because its easier to remember subtle nuances of previous episodes. There are usually alot of really small details which will extend over several episodes that just come to light if you watch it in a short time period.

Not to mention the lack of filler episodes and the definite conclusion. (Gintama is a total bitch when it comes to main story progression let alone main story conclusion. It's truly one of the trolliest series I've ever seen in those regards. I've honestly given up on the main story for that show and just watch it for the side story archs and the humor.)

[Renegade_Turner]

I shall go watch it now, but you could just insert spoiler references and blank out the bits with spoilers so you actually have to highlight them for anything to be spoiled. Then I could only blame myself.

[Freshbite]

I love Bakemonogatari...have you watched Katanagatari? I'm in the middle of watching that now, on the eighth episode. Exact same author. He really does like putting "story" at the end of his titles.

You can't blame him, it's one of the things he's truly superb at. But honestly, I had no idea that they were written by the same author, that makes Katanagatari even more awesome.

I'm glad that so many has taken interest in Katanagatari. Since I watched it myself, I've tried to get as many of my friends (who has some sort of interest in animes in general) to watch it as possible, with no greater success.

I just finished katanagatari ...
I have ... opinions that need to be expressed ... but I'm trying to wait until ren has finished the series.

I'm waiting eagerly.

I actually have watched quite a few shows that continue from week to week or basically have no end like Naruto, one piece, bleach, etc.

Almost all of the big mainstream animes I've come to slowly grow tired of, Bleach and Naruto have both lost my interest. One Piece is slowly digging its own grave, too.

But I find that its more entertaining for me to watch a short series over a week or so because its easier to remember subtle nuances of previous episodes. There are usually alot of really small details which will extend over several episodes that just come to light if you watch it in a short time period.

I tend to watch a lot of 12-episodes-series, it's easy to get in to, and it's not long enough to make you forget about specific details that were presented early on.

Not to mention the lack of filler episodes and the definite conclusion. (Gintama is a total bitch when it comes to main story progression let alone main story conclusion. It's truly one of the trolliest series I've ever seen in those regards. I've honestly given up on the main story for that show and just watch it for the side story archs and the humor.)

Bleach and Naruto is horrible on that part, the very reason I lost interest in them were because of fillers and sub-stories.

[Renegade_Turner]

You can't blame him, it's one of the things he's truly superb at. But honestly, I had no idea that they were written by the same author, that makes Katanagatari even more awesome.

I'm glad that so many has taken interest in Katanagatari. Since I watched it myself, I've tried to get as many of my friends (who has some sort of interest in animes in general) to watch it as possible, with no greater success.

Funny, I recommended Bakemonogatari to my friend Jim and he loved it, so he recommended Fooly Cooly to me, which I loved. By the time I'd finished that he had also looked for more stuff by the same guy that did Bakemonogatari, and found and finished Katanagatari, which he recommended to me even more strongly than Bakemonogatari. So far I agree completely. Gotta finish the last five. The seventh episode with the Kyoutoryuu siblings was absolutely brilliant. Won't say any more because it would ruin it.

[Assaultman67]

I shall go watch it now, but you could just insert spoiler references and blank out the bits with spoilers so you actually have to highlight them for anything to be spoiled. Then I could only blame myself.

Honestly, I was kinda stalling to hear your opinion first before you heard mine ... that way I would have an idea of how much flak I was going to take.

However, I imagine the end must be pretty spectacular because I can't quite figure out a way to wrap things up and keep the same pace they normally do. (which is unusual for me because I usually can at least come up with some scenarios on how i think it will end)

This quote ... makes me kinda disappointing in myself for not seeing the end coming.

*Spoiler*
I knew there were 12 swords and there were twelve episodes, however at the time I wrote that I was wondering "In the 12th episode, How are they going to get the 12th sword and wrap it up with one big happy ending after building up so much suspense towards the final showdown? " Simply put, the pace was going to make the last episode kinda cluttered.

My mistake was assuming there was gonna be a happy ending. Toward the end of episode 11 and through episode 12 the entire pattern of the series totally broke down.

Now I know quite a few of you will disagree with me on this point, but. I am not a fan of unhappy endings because of completely unexpected tragedy.

I doubt anyone who watched this series wanted that to happen to togame and Shichika (Kyoutoryuu guy).

I kinda bit my tongue during the whole 7th episode thinking it was a necessary evil to kill Shichika's sister instill a sense of despair which would eventually be overcome as well as "clearing the path" so to say for Togame and Shichika's future together and not have Shichika's sister become this not so romantic third wheel at the end of the series.

During the whole series, Togame seems to humanize Shichika and then at the very last episode this seems to get torn away after she dies. That's just cruel.

I guess I'll just never understand why series such as that get cherished so much. I mean it seems to me that alot of these kinds of "unexpected twist" series get ranked so high simply based upon the powerful emotions they instill. Why? Why do people think that a series is so great when the ending is so melancholy to say the least?

I guess i think that traditional story formats of triumphing over despair shouldn't be changed to going from despair to more despair. One instills a feeling of hope and happiness towards the audience whereas the other gives a feeling of hopelessness and sadness.

It's true that in reality, things do not always work out for the best. But people in general don't want to be reminded of this. They want to believe that if they try hard enough everything will be great. Series like this kinda damage those delusions people desperately cling to.

[Freshbite]

*Superior Spoilfest*

Now I know quite a few of you will disagree with me on this point, but. I am not a fan of unhappy endings because of completely unexpected tragedy.
I doubt anyone who watched this series wanted that to happen to togame and Shichika (Kyoutoryuu guy).

...

During the whole series, Togame seems to humanize Shichika and then at the very last episode this seems to get torn away after she dies. That's just cruel.

Admittedly, how they ended it might seem odd. But what I think that they wanted to underscore was how Shichika had progressed during the series. I don't know if I should mention "Revenge", but that was my interpretation of it. During the series they talked a lot about how he "falled for her", which was something I didn't quite believed, but the last episode clearly showed me otherwise.

It's true that in reality, things do not always work out for the best. But people in general don't want to be reminded of this. They want to believe that if they try hard enough everything will be great. Series like this kinda damage those delusions people desperately cling to.

...

I guess I'll just never understand why series such as that get cherished so much. I mean it seems to me that alot of these kinds of "unexpected twist" series get ranked so high simply based upon the powerful emotions they instill. Why? Why do people think that a series is so great when the ending is so melancholy to say the least?

Because it's different. It's a fresh breeze of air in the current anime mainstream shit storm, which, frankly, a lot of people has grown tired of. To instill that all stories aren't a happy dance on a field of roses is sometimes very refreshing.
Look at Code Geass, that anime blew everyone away and there were a huge hype about how it ended, and personally I thought that it couldn't have ended any better, however sad it was.

I guess i think that traditional story formats of triumphing over despair shouldn't be changed to going from despair to more despair. One instills a feeling of hope and happiness towards the audience whereas the other gives a feeling of hopelessness and sadness.

Did they not triumph? What was the main evil in this series if not the swords, the Shogun, and perhaps the Maniwa Corps, all of which were obliterated up to the last episode? There are always casualties, and this story could not have ended better without it.

On another, less depressing note, read this:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nisio_Isin ... ari_Series

It appears as if the second story mentioned in that list is having its Anime debut in a while. Kizumonogatari appears to be a prequel to the Bakemonogatari story, involving mostly the same characters, this one focusing more on Shinobu Oshino (The little blond, silent girl).

Looking more into it, several other novels of this same series have already been released, and if you like the Bakemonogatari universe, I suggest you look them up. I know I will, the lore person I am.

[Assaultman67]

Because it's different. It's a fresh breeze of air in the current anime mainstream shit storm, which, frankly, a lot of people has grown tired of. To instill that all stories aren't a happy dance on a field of roses is sometimes very refreshing.
Look at Code Geass, that anime blew everyone away and there were a huge hype about how it ended, and personally I thought that it couldn't have ended any better, however sad it was.

But stories dont have to be a happy dance on a field of roses. They just need to have the protagonist win in some way or form.

I guess the difference between Code Geass and Katanagatari is the successfulness of the goals of the main character.

If you look at Code Geass, Lelouch basically got exactly what he wanted in the end which made it a great ending, however bittersweet in nature because he died. However, he was dedicated, he knew that to accomplish his goals, he had to die.

Shichika did not get what he wanted at all, his family was killed (by him ... which is kinda fucked up ... they never explained why he killed his dad, maybe I missed that part.) and despite all the fucked up stuff going on in the world, basically all he wanted to do was to stay by Togame's side no matter what motives she had for him.

Did they not triumph? What was the main evil in this series if not the swords, the Shogun, and perhaps the Maniwa Corps, all of which were obliterated up to the last episode? There are always casualties, and this story could not have ended better without it.

Was their goal to destroy all the swords? or destroy the Maniwa Corps? not even Togame wanted that. and as I already said, Shichika just wanted to stay by Togame's side. The events that followed after her death were just rage towards the people and objects that got her killed.

(p.s. pengin's death was fucking brutal O_o ...but he wasn't a main character so, lol, no sympathy)

Although the world was certainly made a better place, the protagonist lost everything dear to him and not even his wish to die was granted.

... It appears as if the second story mentioned in that list is having its Anime debut in a while. Kizumonogatari appears to be a prequel to the Bakemonogatari story, involving mostly the same characters, this one focusing more on Shinobu Oshino (The little blond, silent girl).

That's cool.

lol im just fucking with ren because there is alot of white space conversation hes missing out on.

[Freshbite]

But stories dont have to be a happy dance on a field of roses. They just need to have the protagonist win in some way or form.
I guess the difference between Code Geass and Katanagatari is the successfulness of the goals of the main character.

If you look at Code Geass, Lelouch basically got exactly what he wanted in the end which made it a great ending, however bittersweet in nature because he died. However, he was dedicated, he knew that to accomplish his goals, he had to die.

Shichika did not get what he wanted at all, his family was killed (by him ... which is kinda fucked up ... they never explained why he killed his dad, maybe I missed that part.) and despite all the fucked up stuff going on in the world, basically all he wanted to do was to stay by Togame's side no matter what motives she had for him.

But why must the protagonist get what they want? Don't you think it limits the way the story can progress if its author is expected to finish it with a happy ending?

Was their goal to destroy all the swords? or destroy the Maniwa Corps? not even Togame wanted that. and as I already said, Shichika just wanted to stay by Togame's side. The events that followed after her death were just rage towards the people and objects that got her killed.

Honestly, I was just that shocked over Togame's death, that the following rage and slaughter, and particularly the death of Enmonzaemon truly got myself into a "Kill the fucking shit out of that guy" mood, and story wise, it had nowhere else to go from there and I was satisfied with that.

Admittedly, I can agree that it was somewhat of an abrupt ending, but would it not have made sense if it were to be drawn out a bit, say, if Togame would have died in the middle of the series and Shichika spend the rest of the story hunting down the men held responsible. Would you really not be satisfied with that?

Perhaps he has one success though, fulfilling Togame's last wish. Cheerio.

lol im just fucking with ren because there is alot of white space conversation hes missing out on.

He has some things to read through, if he so choose.

... It appears as if the second story mentioned in that list is having its Anime debut in a while. Kizumonogatari appears to be a prequel to the Bakemonogatari story, involving mostly the same characters, this one focusing more on Shinobu Oshino (The little blond, silent girl).

That's cool.

I found a source for it that is translated, Baka-tsuki.org/bleh=Kizumonogatari, but it appears to be incomplete. I will probably read up on it anyway.

[Zhukov]

*ahem*

I would like to take this opportunity to announce that Duke Nukem Forever is not a very good game.

That is all.

Thank you and good night.

[Assaultman67]

But why must the protagonist get what they want? Don't you think it limits the way the story can progress if its author is expected to finish it with a happy ending?

Yes and no. I don't like to say that constraints on something are artistically limiting when limits tend to bring to inspire rather than hinder. And there are several who would agree with me on that point. (but I can't find the god damned article X_X)

But to mathematically argue that its not limiting all the potential stories that could ever created is impossible.

They don't necessarily have to have a happy ending, I just think they're more enjoyable in the overall scope of things. If you look into the past and look at plays and such, tragic stories were told all the time, Probably more frequently than happy ones. However, at some point in time they kinda died out and stories with happy endings were being told instead. Why do you think that is? We're people just bored of tragic stories and thought "oh, this happy story is unique! I would like to hear more stories with happy endings!"? Or do you think that story makers found that audiences enjoy stories with happy endings more so than tragic endings?

I personally think the latter. story makers realized at some point in time that people enjoy stories with happy endings more because that's what people strive for in life. People strive to be happy, not become broken in body and/or soul. By creating stories that have some kind of tragedy early on and later become happy, it makes the audience happy as well at the end because they identify with the protagonists struggles and see him/her overcome them.

I'm not really opposed to exploring beyond that "happy ending" structure, but there is a reason why that structure has come out on top over time and that's is in my opinion because people generally enjoy it more.

I simply get the feeling that when people see kinda tragic stories like this they think to themselves "oooh this is unique therefore it must be good!". Or maybe I'm the crazy one ... I don't know anymore. I mean, I don't hate the series, i just don't generally enjoy sad endings as much as happy ones.

TLDR This series was good, but really depressing, so why do we call it good? Are we happier after hearing the story? Should any story that invokes strong emotions of any nature be considered good? Could I make an extremely sad story about dying puppies and would it be considered good?

Admittedly, I can agree that it was somewhat of an abrupt ending, but would it not have made sense if it were to be drawn out a bit, say, if Togame would have died in the middle of the series and Shichika spend the rest of the story hunting down the men held responsible. Would you really not be satisfied with that?

Perhaps he has one success though, fulfilling Togame's last wish. Cheerio.

I was going to agree that I wouldn't be satisfied ... but I could actually see how that story could work out. Say if Togame got killed roughly 2 or 3 episodes earlier there would still be enough to catch people off guard, but also allow enough time for Shichika time to heal over his loss and eventually realize how futile fighting is and the value of life. (as cliche as that sounds.)

That was the other issue I had with the series. I don't really believe he ever learns the value of life as much as I would like in the series and that is an important part of your humanity in my opinion. Being able to recognize the value of life to the degree we do is what I believe separates us from other animals.

lol im just fucking with ren because there is alot of white space conversation hes missing out on.

He has some things to read through, if he so choose.

Heh, I'm not sure if it was subtle genius rearranging the order in which the text appeared or just coincidence. If its by some chance subtle genius I tip my hat to you.

... It appears as if the second story mentioned in that list is having its Anime debut in a while. Kizumonogatari appears to be a prequel to the Bakemonogatari story, involving mostly the same characters, this one focusing more on Shinobu Oshino (The little blond, silent girl).

That's cool.

I found a source for it that is translated, Baka-tsuki.org/bleh=Kizumonogatari, but it appears to be incomplete. I will probably read up on it anyway.[/quote]

I never read manga, although I probably should, there are alot of anime series, that were axed prematurely but are still being produced in manga.

[Count Roland]

I WAITED LIKE 13 YEARS! I'LL PLAY IT ANYWAY.

[Chalky]

I can't believe people actually pay money to go see this unfunny crap.