Wolfire Games Forums

underthedeep wrote:look at these stupid bitches arguing about grammar on an internet forum....

Grammar is the glue that holds our poor jumbled language together.

Renegade_Turner wrote:It doesn't mean "is not there", it's "is there not". Either is acceptable. Is there? Is there not? Both essentially mean, and are asking, the same thing, since they are yes/no questions. =]

They are both yes/no questions, true, but that doesn't mean they mean the same thing. I'm not sure the best way to explain this, as I agree it is very nebulous, but there's a subtle difference the "not" brings in, no matter if it is placed before or after the "there." Let me use an example. If your neighbor asks you "Do you have a lawn mower," their intent is pretty simple to see. They are asking, yes or no, whether or not you have a lawn mower. However, if they come and ask you "Do you not have a lawn mower," that's a lot different. They are absolutely expecting you to have a lawn mower, and will be indignant should you not have one. That's what I meant, when I said that "is there not" carries the connotation that there is.

Jacktheawesome wrote:

underthedeep wrote:look at these stupid bitches arguing about grammar on an internet forum....

Grammar is the glue that holds our poor jumbled language together.

yeah but to the point where you guys are both getting in a hissy fit about it just seems almost asinine.

please show your E-Penis elsewhere and stop diving this once great thread lower into the depths of fuckall.

I know what Jack's getting at. It might be a cultural difference or something that's preventing Andy from understanding him. To kind of rephrase what he said:

If someone asks you if you have something, depending on the context, they basically imply that either they'd like to use it or they're not sure if you have it and see no reason to assume that you do.

For instance, "Do you have a bathroom?" is a question that most people living in a first-world country would respond to with a "Yeah, it's down the hall, first door on the left" or something similar; it's clear that the questioner basically assumed the answer is a "yes" and wants to go take a whiz.

On the other hand, if you complain about having to pee outside all the time, then someone might ask you, "Wait, do you not have a bathroom?" with a tone of shock and disbelief.

To use another example, I'm sure you've seen an instance of this kind of exchange of dialogue in a film or generic TV serial at some point- typically, it's like a scene where the average, easy-to-relate-to protagonist has to deal with some snooty aristocratic kind of individual who takes it for granted that they're stupidly rich. For instance:
Protag: I hate waking up late and missing my train to work.
Bourgeois: Oh, can't you just use the family helicopter to get there on time?
Protag: You have a helicopter?
Bourgeois: Well, several, actually. Do you not?

Also Jesse sharrup, without proper grammar this thread will fall apart and we'll be left with nothing, you fool.

Ragdollmaster wrote:
Also Jesse sharrup, without proper grammar this thread will fall apart and we'll be left with nothing, you fool.

this is just arguing for the sake of arguing at this point, this thread was started to show off funnies that we all did together not bicker about what you learned in school.

Allow me to respond with a meme because I'm a pathetic fuck

[+] Jesse right now

Also to lighten the mood, here's a gif of a running wombat

[+] Damn wombats are cute

Ragdollmaster wrote:Also to lighten the mood, here's a gif of a running wombat

[+] Damn wombats are cute

= http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3UK-KHFB4Y8

underthedeep wrote:

Jacktheawesome wrote:

underthedeep wrote:look at these stupid bitches arguing about grammar on an internet forum....

Grammar is the glue that holds our poor jumbled language together.

yeah but to the point where you guys are both getting in a hissy fit about it just seems almost asinine.

please show your E-Penis elsewhere and stop diving this once great thread lower into the depths of fuckall.

Whoa there, Jesse, no hissy fits are being had, at least not on our end. You should know this forum well enough to know that it enjoys a good pedant-off every once in a while. And since when does the thread's original intent have anything to do with what it evolves into sixteen pages later?

Ragdollmaster wrote:I know what Jack's getting at. It might be a cultural difference or something that's preventing Andy from understanding him. To kind of rephrase what he said:

If someone asks you if you have something, depending on the context, they basically imply that either they'd like to use it or they're not sure if you have it and see no reason to assume that you do.

For instance, "Do you have a bathroom?" is a question that most people living in a first-world country would respond to with a "Yeah, it's down the hall, first door on the left" or something similar; it's clear that the questioner basically assumed the answer is a "yes" and wants to go take a whiz.

On the other hand, if you complain about having to pee outside all the time, then someone might ask you, "Wait, do you not have a bathroom?" with a tone of shock and disbelief.

To use another example, I'm sure you've seen an instance of this kind of exchange of dialogue in a film or generic TV serial at some point- typically, it's like a scene where the average, easy-to-relate-to protagonist has to deal with some snooty aristocratic kind of individual who takes it for granted that they're stupidly rich. For instance:
Protag: I hate waking up late and missing my train to work.
Bourgeois: Oh, can't you just use the family helicopter to get there on time?
Protag: You have a helicopter?
Bourgeois: Well, several, actually. Do you not?

Well put. That is what I was trying to communicate.

Renegade_Turner wrote:I don't think they do, I think you just have a funny way of looking at questions. Also, you're describing it as if the words have a tone that they don't have.

The point of connotation is that words take on a "tone" that is not literally spelled out in the word itself. In my experience, these phrases have those connotations. I wonder if there is a cultural difference at play here, because I'm sure I haven't heard the "not" version used any other way.

you know what, fuck it. i'm just going to do this again.

God damn.

We need a sexy girl thread (I think we had a non-PG one before)

Glabbit wrote:[youtube][/youtube]

Assaultman67 wrote:God damn.

We need a sexy girl thread (I think we had a non-PG one before)

yeah back when i was a silly scrub i made this one: viewtopic.php?f=1&t=6385

DISCLAIMER: THIS IN NO WAY SHAPE OR FORM SHOULD BE CONSIDERED A "NOTABLE" EVENT TO BE ARCHIVED