Wolfire Games Forums

If microsoft isn't allowed to borrow good ideas, then none of us should, and that means in Lugaru 2 david can't use ragdoll because someone else thought of that first. He also can't use swords because they belong to the dark ages, or knives, or staffs, or any martial art. Microsoft sees a good idea and they use it, so what?

If David acted like he'd invented ragdoll, and then used it to amass the world's largest fortune, I probably wouldn't be playing Lugaru. Even if he gave most of the fortune away.

One reason I like Lugaru is 'cuz it was an innovative game made by a relatively young person all (or mostly all) by himself.

If L2 becomes a bloated, overblown, self-important, crowd-pleaser of a game, I probably won't like it either.

As for McvM$ debates, Apple started more like Lugaru, and it's one reason I like both. M$ took some good ideas and made them pay off, which is fine, but I think it's like VHS v Beta: Beta is (or was) arguably the better format, but got outmarketed.

I use both Windoze and OS X (I have Parallels) and I still think X is a cleaner, more intuitive, easier to navigate, logical system. It's very stable, and getting better all the time.

The last statement is one it's hard to make about M$. Most people prefer it because it's more ubiquitous, has more programs (especially games), and is usually used in industry. Plus it is relentlessly marketed. But most people prefer McDonalds and reality programs for the same reasons, which have nothing to do with quality.

I think it's important, even philosophically required of a person, to support things you believe are better, even if it's inconvenient and costs more. That why I support Apple.

I'm still with microsoft, but that is a very good point.

Technically, I'm pretty sure whoever invented ragdoll physics probably intended (More or less) for it to be widely used, not just by him/her.

With the swords debate, those who copied the idea (Or invented it all on their own just because the things were sharp and fit the purpose well) were just like Microsoft, as they copied the idea of others. However, in war, none of this matters.

With staffs'n'knives'n'schtuff, that's a lot like a mix of the ragdoll debate and the swords debate. It's perfectly fine to invent your own martial art, as many have done. With the weapons part, it's the same as the swords debate.

Technically, it's ok to make an operating system, but when you take the ideas of another OS, change the colour scheme and rearrange the buttons, create suites of applications that are very much like their counterparts, and so on… Well, you get the idea.

To the people who hate Windows because it copies other people: how do you explain Konfabulator->Dashboard and Watson->Sherlock?

nobody's perfect.

And how do you explain Smalltalk GUIs -> Every GUI you've ever seen that comes with an operating system? You know, a titled window with a menu at the top, a scrollbar at the right and buttons to maximize and close it, probably some buttons for quick functions below the main menu, a status line at the bottom of the window, a realtime interactive resizing button at the lower right.. That's where it all started.

It's (partly) how progress happens, putting well-known principles in new contexts. It's considered a good thing. That's why patents shouldn't apply to algorithms. Doing so means slowing progress down for profit.

BunnyWithStick wrote:It's perfectly fine to invent your own martial art, as many have done.

A bit off topic, but just about all japanese martial arts are the same. Jus they are taught differently

Karate=speed
Tai kwon do=Kicking

But they use the same moves with different names.

Roundhouse kick=karate
Turning kick=Tai kwon do

In other words, arguing over microsoft and apple is basically like argueing over tai kwon do and karate, they're almost the same, there is no point in argueing.

PS. Is argueing spelt like that?

invertin wrote:Karate=speed
Tai kwon do=Kicking

I think you just proved yourself wrong. That's different enough to be considered a different martial art.

It's also rather "Interesting" how whenever Apple makes a new OS, Microsoft makes a counterpart. Windows XP is rather alarmingly similar to OSX, and the same applies to everything else, like Leopard and Vista.

Tae kwon do isn't Japanese.

It's Korean; it means "hand-foot art."

Karate is Japanese for "empty hand."

And the two arts are very different in their original source, philosophy and implementation, even though they may have some of the same moves; there are only a relatively few ways to strike with hand and foot, which are basic to all martial arts.

They differ as much as Mac or M$, which is to say, a lot. But I agree that it's useless to argue over which is "better;' each has unique aspects, with superior applications in different situations, but in the end it's a matter of personal choice and philosophy.

Exactly. I don't want to kill anyone who uses windows, and I don't hate them for using it. Instead, I hate the windows they use.

BunnyWithStick wrote:

invertin wrote:Karate=speed
Tai kwon do=Kicking

I think you just proved yourself wrong. That's different enough to be considered a different martial art.

And you are also wrong, you missed the point. The point is that Tai kwon do and karate are basically the same thing, just used differently. The same with apple and microsoft products. I'm done argueing for today, I won't respond no matter what you say. (Unless it's something reallly weird or amazing)

I'm not arguing, you know.

One could also use that philosophy to claim that yelling and screaming are basically the same, just differently done.

And dropping and throwing too.

We should start a thread to argue about the difference between martial arts.

To begin with, your point about TKD and karate is totally wrong in its essence. They aren't the same techniques used differently; they're different arts.

If you want a better comparison, use Aikido and Hapkido.

They both spring from the same source; they both use the same techniques (with different names); the names even mean the same thing in Japanese and Korean (respectively): "The art of coordinated energy." They're even written with the same kanji characters:

The main difference is in the philosophy and application, which brings us back to the original point I was making: you chose something that fits with your outlook and philosophy, which has what you define as "quality," and you allow others to do the same.

As long as the things people choose aren't created or used for evil purposes, you shouldn't attack people for their choices. However, you should also be free to try to change their mind by describing what you perceive as the benefits of your preferred system.