PEOPLE NEED TO KNOW THE TRUTHAssaultman67 wrote:Sigh
Did you have to drag this out into the public?
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Not unnecessary at all; it's cool to learn these things. As for WWII, I agree that the pacific theater was in some ways its own war, but the America forces did contribute a lot in the European theater, in terms of material support and troops (see D-Day).Renegade_Turner wrote:The Irish civil war itself didn't really have anything to do with any of those things. A Treaty was signed between England and the Irish Free State giving Ireland its independence. It was called the Anglo-Irish Treaty. After this, the members of the Irish Free State who had been calling themselves the Irish Republic split off into two groups when Michael Collins came back from England with news about signing the Treaty.Jacktheawesome wrote:All I really know about it is that it had to do with Protestantism and Catholicism, loyalty to the UK, and a lot of people are still upset about it.
There were pro-Treaty, who believed that the Treaty could be used, at first, to dismantle the oath to the British government that our government had to swear, and then later on to dismantle every other piece of power the Brits had over Ireland. They felt it was very much a big step in the right direction, and as Michael Collins put it, it gave them "the freedom to achieve freedom".
Then there were the anti-Treaty, who felt that every inch they had fought for up until that day had been spat upon by the signing of the Treaty, and that Ireland being completely sovereign and split off from the United Kingdom was the only way, and that anything less was an embarrassment and an insult.
Both of these sides henceforth had a civil war. They were both pretty much entirely Catholic, and they were both Irish nationalists. They just disagreed on the terms of the Treaty.
Michael Collins and the other pro-Treaty constituents were proven correct in years since when pretty much all of the UK's influence over Ireland was dismantled using the Treaty. Eamon De Valera, who had been originally against the Treaty, admitted ten years later that Michael Collins and the pro-Treaty members had been right, and that he had been wrong.
There's still ramifications of that civil war to this day. A group of fuckin' idiots calling themselves the IRA who aren't actually the IRA still occasionally cause trouble, less now since 20 or 30 years ago. The real IRA stopped in 1921 when that Anglo-Irish Treaty was signed and civil war broke out.
There's your unnecessary history lesson.
Haha, but Japan wasn't even in the war until America goaded it into the war. They blocked Japanese trade and the Japanese, as you would, took that as an act of war. A number of America's victories in the Pacific were flukes as well. The battle of Midway saw complete air superiority from the Japanese, but a squad of American bombers had somehow missed their target. When they gave up and decided to head back they came flying in over the Japanese carriers from the opposite direction while they had their hangar decks were open with planes being fuelled and armed. The American bombers took this opportunity and dropped their payloads on the ships.Ragdollmaster wrote:Ren the Ruskie Zerg Rush is definitely what won the war in the European theater, but America won the Pacific theater pretty much all by itself. D-Day was also primarily fueled by America's fresh troop reserves. With that said, the UK and USSR definitely prevented the war from being lost by holding out during the Battle of Britain and Siege of Stalingrad respectively. Had either of those battles been a victory for the Germans, America wouldn't have been able to do much.
That was a huge turning point in the war, and if not for complete blind luck, the Japanese would have won the battle.
Also, there was the slight "cheat" you might say of bombing the Japanese into submission with an unfair weapon. =]
As for the real World War 2 that was fought against Nazi Germany, that was pretty much due to the Russians.
Fair point about America feeling it had to intervene against Japan. The rape of Nanking is one of the most horrific things to happen in recent history. America goading Japan into war probably saved a lot of Indonesian and, to a greater degree, Chinese lives. However, it really is their own war. Japan was never part of World War 2 until America caused them to be. Japan had an agreement with Germany and Italy that basically amounted to "You can both take Europe as long as we have Asia". I consider the Pacific and World-War-2-in-Europe to be separate entities.Ragdollmaster wrote:While it's true that America was the reason Japan became a part of World War 2, America didn't have much of a choice: Japan was curbstomping its way into Asia, and America wouldn't put up with that silliness nor endorse it by continuing to give Japan more oil. Had they not cut off their economic support, Japan would have likely taken China and become a considerably larger threat. America's performance in the Pacific wasn't perfect by any means (Pearl Harbor could have been so easily avoided) and they had luck on their side, but then again, a big reason Russia was able to turn the tide was because of that pesky Russian winter.
America likely would have prevailed in Japan without a nuclear strike, the casualties would have just been much higher. Also, Britain had a neat technological advantage of its own with the invention of radar- Germany was baffled at how their air raids became so easily predictable for quite a while.
Having said all that, I was watching Band Of Brothers the other day. God damn it that's a great series. I watched a bit of The Pacific but it does a lot of things from the war in the Pacific so very badly.
What you said about America likely prevailing in Japan with fewer casualties than if they hadn't dropped the bomb, what a lot of people actually forget is that the Russians pushed the Japanese out of China before America dropped the atomic bomb. See the Wikipedia page for more information, I can't be bothered typing much more about it because I'm drunk.
Also to put this all in perspective, let's not forget the fact that it's really America who originally introduced Japan to the way of the gun. Really, this is ALL AMERICA'S FAULT. lolz jk