Informative (Gaming) Discussion 1: Micro-transactions

[Korban3]

I'd be completely ok with the PS2 micro-transactions if it were more plausible to get the gear in-game by just earning it. As is, it really is excessively difficult to get anything at all.

[Glabbit]

Oh and can we get some poll votes?

Please guys?

Dude.
I just woke up, and there's this whole fascinating discussion going on.
Give me a moment to drink me tea.

I'd be completely ok with the PS2 micro-transactions if it were more plausible to get the gear in-game by just earning it. As is, it really is excessively difficult to get anything at all.

YES.
This is the primary reason I gave up on PS2; the sheer tedium of working to unlock anything the rich/irresponsible kid two blocks down could give a casual try from day 1.
I honestly couldn't tell you whether my continuous failure in-game was due to my own lack of skill or-
Well, actually it probably was mostly due to my lack of skill, as I do not habitually play shooters, but I couldn't tell you exactly how much the difference in gear influenced the result.

It's not a transparent system, and is harder to calculate than in the mmorpg environments where you have the floaty damage numbers to help you out, and the fact that it's so unclear bugs me; it's like they're trying to hide the possible imbalance. (Though I can appreciate the aesthetic of not having floaty numbers in every game)
Whilst I can applaud the notion of trying not to be pay-to-win, which honestly I don't think they're trying very hard at in this case, what I really object to is the sheer strain put on players playing for free who are trying to acquire the paid items in a way that once would've been called 'legitimately'.

[Grayswandir]

I see nothing wrong with micro transaction based games as long as its done right. DOTA2, League of Legends, Team Fortress 2, War Thunder and Hawken are under my F2P games "done right".

Items you can buy in DOTA2 and TF2 are all cosmetic. You don't HAVE to buy any of the items to get a complete and full game nor do any of the items give you any advantage over another player.

In LoL and Hawken, you can use in-game points to buy new characters (or in the case of Hawken, new mechs), but they're all balanced out to work with each other in a team environment. You can buy items that give you extra experience or cash per round but there are no items that make you do more damage (in-game items or pick ups not withstanding) or makes you better than a player who hasn't spent any real money. Its all fairly balanced and unless you want new goodies to play with SOONER, you aren't required to buy anything with your own money.

In War Thunder you can pretty much rely entirely on in-game cash to put you through the game while leveling up. You level up your pilots and planes through time and use or by using Golden Eagles (which are bought with real money) to level them up faster. I have put some money into War Thunder, but mostly to get new planes or upgrade pilots faster. War Thunder (used to, its having a few issues with the new patches atm), match you up with other players flying the same "tier" of planes. This used to be based on the year the plane was built, which mean the list was huge. Now, they've grouped all the planes together into 5 tiers. I haven't had a major issue with this yes, you don't see jets fighting against biplanes, however some of the tier 1 planes have to go up against planes just armed to the teeth because they got lumped into the same grouping.

In all these examples, the money transactions have no effect on how the game is played. They might open up options for the player, but none of them give a huge advantage to another player during game play.

[Phoenixwarrior141]

Oh and can we get some poll votes.

Give it some time.


Releasing OP stuff to sell it, then nerfing it later? Could be a problem. Does it happen as the game is patched, regularly? If not, it was just a normal balance problem, not a moneymaking plan.

I wasn't saying Ps2 doesn't have micropayments. My point was that your P2W trend examples didn't all seem to actually be P2W. Not much of a trend.
And micros aren't a problem for me, if the game is designed to be fair.

This is a floodgate, once other companies see this works, it'll happen again.

and P2W and microtransactions can be the same thing, but they do TOTALLY different things.

I see nothing wrong with micro transaction based games as long as its done right. DOTA2, League of Legends, Team Fortress 2, War Thunder and Hawken are under my F2P games "done right".

Items you can buy in DOTA2 and TF2 are all cosmetic. You don't HAVE to buy any of the items to get a complete and full game nor do any of the items give you any advantage over another player.

In LoL and Hawken, you can use in-game points to buy new characters (or in the case of Hawken, new mechs), but they're all balanced out to work with each other in a team environment. You can buy items that give you extra experience or cash per round but there are no items that make you do more damage (in-game items or pick ups not withstanding) or makes you better than a player who hasn't spent any real money. Its all fairly balanced and unless you want new goodies to play with SOONER, you aren't required to buy anything with your own money.

In War Thunder you can pretty much rely entirely on in-game cash to put you through the game while leveling up. You level up your pilots and planes through time and use or by using Golden Eagles (which are bought with real money) to level them up faster. I have put some money into War Thunder, but mostly to get new planes or upgrade pilots faster. War Thunder (used to, its having a few issues with the new patches atm), match you up with other players flying the same "tier" of planes. This used to be based on the year the plane was built, which mean the list was huge. Now, they've grouped all the planes together into 5 tiers. I haven't had a major issue with this yes, you don't see jets fighting against biplanes, however some of the tier 1 planes have to go up against planes just armed to the teeth because they got lumped into the same grouping.

In all these examples, the money transactions have no effect on how the game is played. They might open up options for the player, but none of them give a huge advantage to another player during game play.

WE HAVE A WINNER!!!




Oh and every (EVERY) EA game coming out WILL contain microtransactions.

Kill Me...

[Endoperez]

This is a floodgate, once other companies see this works, it'll happen again.

and P2W and microtransactions can be the same thing, but they do TOTALLY different things.

...

WE HAVE A WINNER!!!


Oh and every (EVERY) EA game coming out WILL contain microtransactions.

Kill Me...

League of legends system works.

You don't seem to hate LoL system.

Why do you think companies will jump P2W train instead of following the example of LoL et al? They work too, what's up with the floodgates there?

P2W is one subcategory of micro-Ts. A failed patch may turn a fair micro game into P2W until the issue is fixed again. Well, in multiplayer games at least; single player games are a bit different.

http://www.polygon.com/2013/3/6/4070584 ... -clarifies

Oh hey look EA might not be doing that! Except in F2P / mobile. Where microtransactions are the notrm. Seems reasonable.

[Glabbit]

WE HAVE A WINNER!!!

Wait what? I thought Gray was just basically repeating examples of what we had already agreed upon. Did I misread something?

Also, what do you people mean exactly with floodgates?

[Grayswandir]

You guys agreed on something? Honestly, not sure what phoenix means either. Originally I thought phoenix was against micro transactions entirely based on this comment:

that said even AESTHETIC microtransactions should not be considered right.

[Endoperez]

I think Glabbit meant that he and me had said similar things to GrSw's post, that PhW now agreed with.

Any way, what about microTs and DLCs in single-player games? Is it wrong to give someone godmode for 66 cents or whatever? Is it more wrong than having cheats?

[Phoenixwarrior141]

Cheats are free...

Also Gray, if the starting stuff looks spugly, that $20 skin pack looks like a good purchase.

[Grayswandir]

Cheats are free...

Also Gray, if the starting stuff looks spugly, that $20 skin pack looks like a good purchase.

Why spend $20 on a skin pack when you could just wait for a discount or a holiday sale? I mean, if you want the skin pack now, and you have the money, more power to you. Depends on if you want to give the company trying to make money NOW...or later...or not at all. Its not like the skin pack is necessary.

[Phoenixwarrior141]

True...
(also it appears that I've put myself in a situation where I've said something that wasn't correct, and now I have to defend myself, but since I've played Dark Souls so I have to fight to the bitter end [if you've played the game you know what that means])

[Glabbit]

I love Dark Souls. Been playing it a lot the past week.

Incidentally, Dark Souls does not have any sort of microtransactions.

[Korban3]

New Tomb Raider game has single player cosmetic microTs as well as noncosmetic ones. They aren't godmode, but they do grant in-game advancement. I'm completely ok with it though, since acquiring the things in those is a pretty simple matter of playing the game. You don't even have to be patient, because the game is pretty good about pacing out the character advancement.

It's actually kind of what I want PS2 to be like. Yes, you can buy that gun. Buy you can also earn it by doing a very fair amount of gameplay. It can take a while to work up to those skills in TR, but at least they're very feasible. I think one guy calculated that it would take over 600 hours of playing PS2 as a single class just to get what is considered a run-of-the-mill gear set vs what people paying can get.

[Phoenixwarrior141]

I love Dark Souls. Been playing it a lot the past week.

Incidentally, Dark Souls does not have any sort of microtransactions.

And so I may live on...

(Unless DS2 has microtransactions...)

[SeleenX]

Cheats are free...

Also Gray, if the starting stuff looks spugly, that $20 skin pack looks like a good purchase.

LOL cheats are free OMGoodness thanks sooooomuch^^

I remember a time when it was very much good manner to include a cheat console in a game and make all cheats public -.- now these w*ores are even selling cheats