Split: Violence in games

[Usagi]

Sorry, Gray. You aren't the source of the noxious miasma that's been erupting throughout the forum lately.

It's these worshipers of Mefitis that assault the olfactories with their malodor and cause one to react reflexively to every minor aroma that wafts by.

I frankly don't pay much attention to these threads; I usually skim them and don't take much notice unless someone suggests something foul and stupid like rape and torture. Even then I try to ignore it, but once in a while I feel like I need to comment.

But it's almost never worth the effort. I've spent more than enough time on what seem to start as thoughtful discussions, only to have them descend into:

IMHO, something I read somewhere but didn't really understand, followed by pop psycho-babble, bafflegab to infinity and beyond, snide and snarky sniping based on out of context quotes, egregious self-aggrandizement 'cuz I'm smarter than all you idiots: PWND!!11!

Oh yah, well same to you with lumps on it!

Look! A badger!

From now on I'll stick to GIFs and mods and skins and the occasional facetious comment (or GIF).

PS: You didn't tell me whether you were actually dealing with Cerebus or not.

[Ultimatum479]

I'm surprised [you] can't grasp the clear message of my post.

The "clear message of [your] post" was obviously that you disapprove of anything being in a game if it goes against your moral code, such as torture and rape, yet apparently you don't mind it happening behind the scenes. It can be in the dialogue, but as long as it's not seen, you seem a'right with it. So if you turned off blood when you played, then you wouldn't know if stabbing your opponents to death was actually killing them! Perhaps they're just unconscious! And since you seemed to approve of the idea that you can knock people unconscious in Lugaru instead of killing them, you can turn off blood when you play "Save The Children" and then crushing the little rabbits' skulls won't be so bad, right?

[David]

... He has a problem with it if the player does those things. Blood is entirely irrelevant.

[Ultimatum479]

No, he said "But no character in the game, not even the wolves, intentionally tortures you, nor rapes you." It has nothing to do with the player for him. And blood isn't irrelevant. My point with that was that he has no problem with things happening as long as he doesn't see them, only hears about them; otherwise, he would've had a problem with the fact that Turner's wife was raped and his entire family murdered. Thus, he shouldn't have a problem with Turner killing everyone instead of knocking them unconscious as long as you can't be sure they're dead, and in Lugaru, you're only sure they're dead if they bleed; therefore, if he turns off blood, he can convince himself they're all merely unconscious, especially if he edits the files so that "Touch of Death!" never shows up, and that'll help him deal with his moral issues.

[Renegade_Turner]

otherwise, he would've had a problem with the fact that Turner's wife was raped and his entire family murdered.

Usagi, in fact, did make a reference to this before, and said it was horrible.

However that was a plot-point. That was what spurred Turner's anger and decent into madness, causing him to leave on a journey to exact revenge on anyone and anything responsible for the death of his family.

This was for a purpose.

The other violence I saw being proposed was pretty much just horrible violence for the sake of horrible violence.

I mean, in all fairness, I like fighting games as much as the next guy, but eating babies in a little multiplayer game? It's easy to see why he'd be disgusted by that.

I'm nooooot particularly horrified by it but I'm not happy about it either.

[Ultimatum479]

...They're wolves and rabbits. The entire plot of Lugaru revolved around WOLVES EATING RABBITS. If you can't handle that, then why the hell are you playing it?!

[Renegade_Turner]

Did I say I couldn't handle that?

But when it turns into the actual people playing the game going and eating a baby in a multiplayer contest, that kind of crosses the line.

[David]

...They're wolves and rabbits. The entire plot of Lugaru revolved around WOLVES EATING RABBITS. If you can't handle that, then why the hell are you playing it?!

There are more important things than 'winning' an argument. If you would like to continue to post here, you will have to be civil and respect different opinions.

[Ultimatum479]

I didn't say you couldn't. Sorry for the ambiguity there, but I hadn't really noticed you'd taken Usagi's place in the conversation. I was referring to him.

And I don't see how that's any different, or how it "crosses [any] line".

[Zantalos]

I see what you're doing and it isn't working.

And because you are so teamed against completely ignoring the actual points, I'll remind you again. Usagi doesn't care about wolves eating rabbits, stop talking like that's the only point of discussion here. He cleared that up, and you kept going on about it. Usagi no longer cares about Gray's new multiplayer game idea, it's not about that.

[Ultimatum479]

Before this thread was split, that _was_ the topic of discussion. We were talking about Grayswandir's new multiplayer game idea.

[BunnyWithStick]

But...but...its a natural order of things...wolves eat rabbits...rabbits defend their young viciously with knives, sticks and swords....
<_<
>_>

I have deduced from this statement that:

• You're just using this as an excuse
• You are and/or would be a fan of The Badlands

[Usagi]

Posit: Humans are idiots.
Assumption: U479 is human.
Ipso facto: U479 is an idiot.

<flawed proof>

All syllogisms are flawed, since they take for granted the point they're attempting to prove. In this way, they're like U. That was sorta the point, but U're not good with those I guess.

However, even a stopped clock is right twice a day, and I believe the conclusion is correct in this case, though perhaps only by virtue of a happy coincidence.

There are degrees of humanity, and since I've got less than the majority of people...you do the math.

Let's see if I can understand this with my under-sized brain and faulty reasoning.

U say that humans are idiots, a conclusion U base on:
- Ur (purported) 12 years of experience being a human, raised by humans among humans, which obviously has exposed U to a wide range of various types of humans of all ages, nationalities, races, occupations, etc.
- Ur (purported) 8 or so years of formal education that has exposed U to capitalization and punctuation, geometry, world cultures, computer keyboarding, art and music, well, gosh, just about the full range of human knowledge and achievement.
- Oh, I dunno, probably something U read.

U claim there are degrees of humanity, based on:
- Umm, well, U said there are.

U claim to have less than the majority of people (uh, I guess less degrees than the majority, which is understandable with only 8 years of, oh, no wait, probably U mean humanity, yeah, that's it), based on:
- U said so.

Therefore, since the more humanity the less smart, and since U have less humanity, U are smarter than the majority of humans. Did I get that right?

Well, this is an irony-rich field, but I really shoulda followed my own advice and stuck to GIFs. I love pearls and I like swine, but they don't mix well, according to my old pal Matt. And though what I say may not be holy, there's no point in giving it to the dogs.

However, it's obvious that although U (with your extra helping of wisdom gained by skipping the humanity course) didn't understand my point, others did.

In fact, they understood it and its importance well enough to make further futile attempts to explain it to U. But since none of us can hope to succeed, I'll retire to Bedlam before Yahweh bans me for being uncivil and disrespectful to U and Ur so-called ideas.

PS:

Before this thread was split, that _was_ the topic of discussion. We were talking about Grayswandir's new multiplayer game idea.

But now it has been split, so I guess U're in the wrong thread. Or does less humanity confer infallibility as well as wisdom?

[Colicedus]

I think we were clear on that conclusion of U479 was an idiot before we started this, can we please rail this topic back on track...

Has everyone voiced why/why not violence and sex should not be in this particular title of Lugaru?

is everyone clear on the difference between sex and rape?
if not I shall voice: sex is an act between two or more people.
Rape is the act of control, it some times includes sexual attack but is not only that.

and lastly, why do we play explicit video games or watch dreadful movies when we do?

[Renegade_Turner]

Ultimatum really shouldn't have gone there...

...or should I say "shouldn't have come here".