Page 5 of 19

Posted: Mon Jul 23, 2007 2:38 pm
by Ultimatum479
wormguy wrote:...some examples of console First Person Shooters done right were Goldeneye and Halo. You simply can't dispute that.
A'right. Let's check out your reasons for disliking Red Steel and compare.
wormguy wrote:First, there is no blood.
.........What?! You seriously list that as an actual reason for disliking the game? That alone calls your entire game-reviewing ability into question...
wormguy wrote:Second, the voice acting is pretty annoying. The Japanese accents are horribly overdone so much as to be comical.
I thought they _were_ meant to be somewhat comical at parts. That's not my complaint with the voice acting. If I have one, it's that the enemies don't have too much to say but they say it often. "Stop you bastard!" "Stop you bastard!" "Stop you bastard!"
wormguy wrote:Third, the level design is a mixed bag. Some of the levels are great - most others are boring or poorly designed.
I didn't think there was a badly designed level in Red Steel. Name some, please?
wormguy wrote:Fourth, the process of aiming is pretty awesome. However, the controls are ultimately muddled by the fact that it takes practically ten minutes just to turn 180 degrees. I'm talking like I could aim my controller to the side, go eat a snack, come back and finally be turned around. I can't even begin to tell you how many times I took major damage because it took so long to turn. It's just completely frustrating.
Okay, okay, WHAT?! Are you playing on Easy control mode? I think you are. Set the sensitivity to Expert and you can turn on a dime. Unless you're somehow having trouble using the Wiimote just to turn to the side, that's the only explanation.
wormguy wrote:Fifth, the sword controls can be annoying. True, the swordfighting has its moments. But I remember one time in the dojo where I literally spent 10 minutes trying to get a combo to work. I would have greatly enjoyed one-to-one control and the ability to draw my sword whenever I wanted, but oh well.
I'm pretty sure that part's just your fault, because combos are quite easy in Red Steel. Actually, my issue with the lack of challenge is mainly in swordfighting, not gunfighting, simply because it's so easy to land combos of ultimate pain. Being able to draw your sword against a bunch of gunfighters wouldn't really help, and if you do manage to get right next to someone you _can_ slice 'em with your tanto.
wormguy wrote:True, the graphics are outstanding. True, the music is great. But ultimately the experience is completely destroyed by the controls. It's unfortunate, because the game is mostly well done. But, if nothing else, a Wii game is made by its controls, and Red Steel's controls sucked.
Yeah, so far the verdict is that it's definitely a combination of you playing on Beginner sensitivity and you just not being good at Red Steel.

On to Halo. The controls here really _were_ horrible because it was an X-box game (before the computer version), and the X-box controller is horrible, and because Halo has excessive auto-aim and it's unnecessary anyway since the enemies absolutely suck at dodging. Great graphics don't make a game even though horrible graphics can sometimes break it. Challenge? Nonexistent. Balance for multiplayer? The same. Pluses: sound (voice acting and music). And, err.....and...........yeah.
wormguy wrote:Also, did you seriously just knock Majora's Mask for its horrible atmosphere and easy difficulty?
Yes.
wormguy wrote:Have you even played Majora's Mask?
Yes.
wormguy wrote:It's the only Zelda game I haven't beaten, because it's too damn frustrating for me. It's widely regarded as the hardest Zelda game ever. The atmosphere in Majora's Mask was what made the freakin' game! Seeing the moon get closer and closer to the earth as time went on was awesome, and the sense of looming doom that pervaded the game was what gave it its unique stamp among Zelda games.
As with Twilght Princess, I've had too many Majora's Mask discussions to count, and most people say the same things as you. I have no idea why anyone would find Majora's Mask difficult in comparison to any other Zelda games; it is in my opinion the easiest I've ever played, even more so than Link's Awakening (which is the only Zelda game I dislike more), in terms of puzzles, and combatively it's PATHETICALLY easy due to the crapload of overpowered masks Link gets.

Most Zelda games have a sense of urgency due to the storyline, as Ganon/Ganondorf/Vaati/Zant/etc comes closer to returning to power / increases in power / is going to kill Zelda or some other well-developed character / etc. Majora's Mask's atmosphere suffered primarily from the introduction of the Goddess of Time. How is the game supposed to convey any sense of urgency when Link has near-total control of the flow of time? What's so frightening about the descent of the moon when a few notes on the Ocarina can revert it to its original position with ease? Nigh-omnipotent protagonists do _not_ make a dark atmosphere, which was what was attempted in Majora's Mask. It made Majora's Mask lack in any sort of challenge for Link in the storyline even more than it lacked in gameplay challenges for the player.

That omnipotence factor, both in the ridiculous power of the masks and in, of course, the excessive personal assistance of a deity, removed any darkness possible in the atmosphere of MM. Of course, the fact that Link's fallen from challenging the Dark Lord Ganon to fighting a frickin' Skull Kid didn't help matters.

Posted: Mon Jul 23, 2007 2:42 pm
by Blorx
Majora's Mask - not the same as the others...too difficult and frustrating for me...i don't like having to twist time every 30 minutes

Twilight Princess - awesome

I may need to write reviews for some of these games mentioned in this thread later

I just didn't like red steel...it bored me...I dunno why

Posted: Mon Jul 23, 2007 3:35 pm
by wormguy
In light of your comments on my Red Steel playing ability, I went to various game review websites to see what they thought of the controls. Here is what I discovered.
Gamespy wrote:More often than not, a game that should be a fairly run-of-the-mill shooter becomes a game of duck, guess, and cover. It's not because the A.I. is so smart that players have to use plenty of cover, or that the experience is subtly intricate. It's more because the controls are so clumsy and awkward that no one will be able to survive a gunfight if he or she is caught between two gunmen. With no 180 turn or any quick way to spin around and shoot, the most basic of firefights becomes a death march.
Gaming Age wrote:The uniqueness of the controls makes for a steep learning curve. The player points the Wii remote at the screen to aim and to turn the player must move the aiming reticule to the side of the screen. But be careful, if you move it too far, the controller doesn’t realize what has happened and you will be stuck turning in the direction you started until the controller positions itself again. This can cause a big headache.
IGN wrote:It nails everything except gameplay control, which is absolutely and indisputably the most important factor. It's especially unfortunate because the game's aiming sensitivity is fine.
Looks like it's not just me. The game received an average press score of 63/100 according to MetaCritic. (While I'm on the topic of critics, Majora's Mask has a Metascore of 95/100.)

In terms of poorly designed levels, I thought the waterfront factory was terrible. That crazy fun-house one was pretty bad too. Those are really the only truly bad ones I can think of. The others are just generic and boring.

Also, I find it quite funny that you knock Halo for its auto-aim when Red Steel's auto-aim is quite generous.

As for Majora's Mask, I do see your points, although I disagree with them. As for Twilight Princess - did you dislike that game?

Posted: Mon Jul 23, 2007 4:17 pm
by Blorx
well, I didn't say red steel had good control in the first place :P

also, I liked Twilight Princess...I didn't like Majora's Mask

Posted: Mon Jul 23, 2007 4:25 pm
by Grayswandir
Red Steel was a hilariously, shoddy game.
If you duck behind and object right in front of an enemy, they think you've disappeared...funny stuff.

Posted: Mon Jul 23, 2007 4:36 pm
by Blorx
wait...out of curiousity...how many of you own Wiis?

Posted: Mon Jul 23, 2007 4:45 pm
by Zantalos
Halo has awesome controls.

I'm going to get Marathon Durandal on xbox live simply because it has Halo's controls. The aiming sensitivity has perfect acceleration.

I'm not going to bother reading what Ultimatum just typed up, but I agree Wormguy, Red Steel has some bad controls. I don't know a single review site that recommends that game.

Posted: Mon Jul 23, 2007 5:00 pm
by Ultimatum479
wormguy wrote:In light of your comments on my Red Steel playing ability, I went to various game review websites to see what they thought of the controls.
I've found that lots of IGN reviewers actually suck at the games they play, so I'm not too surprised about that one. I am a bit puzzled about the Gamespy review, though. Seriously, turning isn't at all a problem in Red Steel if you're on Expert sensitivity...
wormguy wrote:In terms of poorly designed levels, I thought the waterfront factory was terrible.
True, it was pretty crappy. The circus was awesomeness, though.
wormguy wrote:Also, I find it quite funny that you knock Halo for its auto-aim when Red Steel's auto-aim is quite generous.
That it is in terms of aiming at people in general, but it doesn't auto-aim at the enemy's heads, which is what Red Steel gunfights are all about. If you're not hitting your opponents in the head with 80%+ of your shots, you're wasting a lot of ammo.

No, Twilight Princess is my favorite Zelda game ever.

Posted: Mon Jul 23, 2007 5:03 pm
by Blorx
hmm...to Gray: I was interested to find out that Conker BFD got a 9.9 whilst L&R got an 8.1

also, to Ult: I wonder how long it takes them to get to a point where they can review it...say after it's beaten...so that they can write the review

Posted: Mon Jul 23, 2007 8:39 pm
by Colicedus
Zantalos wrote:I'm not going to bother reading what Ultimatum just typed
Dose anybody? :lol: :P

Posted: Mon Jul 23, 2007 9:05 pm
by Ultimatum479
When they feeling like responding intelligently to posts instead of randomly flaming and spamming...so, no, not usually.

Posted: Mon Jul 23, 2007 9:18 pm
by Blorx
Colicedus wrote:
Zantalos wrote:I'm not going to bother reading what Ultimatum just typed
Dose anybody? :lol: :P
I did...

Posted: Mon Jul 23, 2007 9:26 pm
by BunnyWithStick
Ultimatum479 wrote:When they feeling like responding intelligently to posts instead of randomly flaming and spamming...so, no, not usually.
That is one very rushed and ironic post.

Posted: Mon Jul 23, 2007 9:26 pm
by nerodx
um....i think everything in here just exploded....i like majoras mask, took me awhile to beat the first time but got through it again pretty easily.....what do you mean over powering masks? the only one i like ever used in combat was bunny hood and fierce deity. if that counts. and the transforming masks but those didn't make much of a differance.

this is gonna burn so people
i liked red steel

it was pretty fun, but got a little old at the end.

and you all seem to be forgeting about ocarina of time, my list for favorite zelda games probobly goes

1. Ocarina
2. Twighlight
3. tie between link to the past, four swords, and majoras mask, but i havent played them in awhile, havent played ocarina for awhile either but EVERYONE knows it kicks ass

oh, and uh i never played marathon. anyone know where i can get it?

Posted: Mon Jul 23, 2007 9:28 pm
by BunnyWithStick
Nerodx, go burn in hell and do not disturb my post-editage! :evil: