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Re: Polygon gives Beyonetta 2 a 7.5 because of sexualization

Posted: Tue Nov 18, 2014 4:48 am
by Endoperez
Korban3 wrote:I don't even give a shit anymore. People want to be toxic, horrible monsters to others, they'll only receive the same from me. I'm sick of giving kindness and respect to people and only receiving the opposite.

Anyways, the bunched panties and sandy vaginas are both expressions anyways, kind of exclusive to the military, but still.

People have gotten soft, and others take advantage of it. Perhaps in a less literal sense, "If it's hostile, you kill it." should be my new motto. "Live and let live" doesn't work, apparently.
Maybe the toxic reactions you see and react to are also caused by frustrated people giving up on being polite. 'Shit, that man is wearing a hostile joke, wtf?'

Military slang or not, it is exclusive. It's like sayingsomething is caused by blue balls and a cup too small or something.

'Live and let live' assumes passive stance all around, and lack of change. There might be something about weathering storms or something that's closer to it but more active.

Re: Polygon gives Beyonetta 2 a 7.5 because of sexualization

Posted: Tue Nov 18, 2014 6:21 pm
by Endoperez
This is the most uncredible thing. Incredible. Whatever.

You guys remember Jack Thompson, the guy who said video games cause murder etc. He was reviewed today. He is Pro-GamerGate.

That's not all.
[+] Mind is blown
GamerGate is pro Jack Thompson.
https://mobile.twitter.com/ragingmagus/ ... 7052534784
More absurdity has been tweeted by A man in black.
http://Www.twitter.com/a_man_in_black

It's kinda offtopic, but WAT HOW WHEN UH? WAT? WHY?!
:mrgreen:

How can these guys side with a guy saying video games kill, against a gal saying video games have sexist elements, and think that's better for video games?

Re: Polygon gives Beyonetta 2 a 7.5 because of sexualization

Posted: Tue Nov 18, 2014 9:41 pm
by Phoenixwarrior141
Holy shit.

I dunno. GamerGate has officially went pants on head retarded.

What. The. Fuck.

Re: Polygon gives Beyonetta 2 a 7.5 because of sexualization

Posted: Tue Nov 18, 2014 11:27 pm
by Endoperez
It might still just be a vocal minority thing, where much of Gamergate would be surprised to hear this. But it's so absurd!

Re: Polygon gives Beyonetta 2 a 7.5 because of sexualization

Posted: Wed Nov 19, 2014 2:32 am
by Endoperez
http://far-cry.ubi.com/en-GB/game-info/characters.aspx

Check the Golden Path.

Amita Sarbeesian is a character who appears in Far Cry 4 (family name from wiki, dunno if it's true... But she is described as someone opposing sexism!)

"Amita sees the practice as superstitious, old, and ultimately sexist, objectifying young women and robbing them of autonomy, a good education, and social life. "

Re: Polygon gives Beyonetta 2 a 7.5 because of sexualization

Posted: Wed Nov 19, 2014 4:38 am
by Glabbit
Yeah, well, people in the general public are often stark raving mad, and this often seems a greater problem than it is because the insane ones are the ones we hear about, but that doesn't make it any less of a problem.
Honestly I'm surprised that you people are so surprised about all these occurrences.

What would you guys suggest we do about it then? Establish our own political party and preach about the practices of common sense?
What can we do?

Re: Polygon gives Beyonetta 2 a 7.5 because of sexualization

Posted: Wed Nov 19, 2014 5:04 am
by EPR89
Endoperez wrote:http://Www.far-cry.ubi.com/en-GB/game-i ... cters.aspx

Check the Golden Path.

Amita Sarbeesian is a character who appears in Far Cry 4 (family name from wiki, dunno if it's true... But she is described as someone opposing sexism!)

"Amita sees the practice as superstitious, old, and ultimately sexist, objectifying young women and robbing them of autonomy, a good education, and social life. "
That website doesn't load for me.
And I couldn't find any information about the Amita character that would suggest that her last name is Sarbeesian.

Re: Polygon gives Beyonetta 2 a 7.5 because of sexualization

Posted: Wed Nov 19, 2014 7:14 am
by Endoperez
EPR89 wrote:
Endoperez wrote:http://Www.far-cry.ubi.com/en-GB/game-i ... cters.aspx

Check the Golden Path.

Amita Sarbeesian is a character who appears in Far Cry 4 (family name from wiki, dunno if it's true... But she is described as someone opposing sexism!)

"Amita sees the practice as superstitious, old, and ultimately sexist, objectifying young women and robbing them of autonomy, a good education, and social life. "
That website doesn't load for me.
And I couldn't find any information about the Amita character that would suggest that her last name is Sarbeesian.
Fixed it, the www I had added broke it.

The Sarbeesian thing might just have been something added to the wiki (and isn't there anymore), so as I said, it might not be true.

Re: Polygon gives Beyonetta 2 a 7.5 because of sexualization

Posted: Thu Nov 20, 2014 6:24 pm
by Phoenixwarrior141
Something unrelated:

http://steamcommunity.com/app/212680/di ... 577001357/

Told you feminazis were everywhere.

Re: Polygon gives Beyonetta 2 a 7.5 because of sexualization

Posted: Thu Nov 20, 2014 6:58 pm
by Endoperez
Phoenixwarrior141 wrote:Something unrelated:

http://steamcommunity.com/app/212680/di ... 577001357/

Told you feminazis were everywhere.
I don't think that was offensive, angry, or even a ridiculous question. I don't there were any demands or even requests from the starter.

What did she do wrong?

Re: Polygon gives Beyonetta 2 a 7.5 because of sexualization

Posted: Fri Nov 21, 2014 12:02 am
by Phoenixwarrior141
LET'S BEGIN:

- Blatantly sexist and would want more women then men (Despite the fact that these are all backers, you know).

- Accuses the game and it's developers of being sexist.

- Makes a big deal out of nothing

- Deflects criticism like a champ

- Refuses to argue with anyone.

AKA: The trademark evidence of a feminazi, attacking a game. Just a feminazi in training.

Re: Polygon gives Beyonetta 2 a 7.5 because of sexualization

Posted: Fri Nov 21, 2014 12:32 am
by Ragdollmaster
Phoenixwarrior141 wrote:LET'S BEGIN:
Cringe. No need for this silly ALL CAPS I AM SERIOUS LOOK AT MY OPINION nonsense. It's like you're trying to yell the other guy down.
Phoenixwarrior141 wrote:- Blatantly sexist and would want more women then men (Despite the fact that these are all backers, you know).
Even if that's the case, I would still really appreciate a 50/50 gender distribution. Come to think of it
Great reading skills. That's from the original post, too, not some obscure comment buried in the thread.
Phoenixwarrior141 wrote:- Accuses the game and it's developers of being sexist.
This is inherently bad? Sexism is an actual issue in society. If people think media is being sexist, they should call it out.
Phoenixwarrior141 wrote: - Makes a big deal out of nothing
Same as above. On paper, no, it's not that important that some random indie game doesn't have equal gender distribution in its NPCs. Then again, on paper, most things in any game aren't important.
Phoenixwarrior141 wrote: - Deflects criticism like a champ
I'm not seeing any criticism in the comments. I'm seeing some people disagreeing. Do you know what the word criticism means? You seem fond of using it even though you're not very good at giving it.
Phoenixwarrior141 wrote:]
- Refuses to argue with anyone.
Yes. She stated her opinion and asked for thoughts on it. There's no inherent argument to be had. The fact that she's not squabbling with everyone who disagrees with her opinion is a sign of maturity.

I liked this quote: "It's not okay to make fun of me for something I think is important." No, it's really not. People get to express their opinions on social media platforms. It's a great thing about this day and age. If all you can do is mock someone without offering any actual valid criticism (not that there is any to offer on a pure opinion), you really have nothing intelligent to add to that discussion.
Phoenixwarrior141 wrote:AKA: The trademark evidence of a feminazi, attacking a game. Just a feminazi in training.
Her question and subsequent responses are perfectly reasonable. Calling her a fascist and sexist (feminazis, in modern vernacular, usually mean people who essentially want female supremacy- just wanted to let you know since you seem to bandy around words without knowing their actual meaning) is really not at all supported by that thread. Lord, you probably think girls have cooties too, huh?

Re: Polygon gives Beyonetta 2 a 7.5 because of sexualization

Posted: Fri Nov 21, 2014 1:33 am
by Phoenixwarrior141
Ragdollmaster wrote:
Cringe. No need for this silly ALL CAPS I AM SERIOUS LOOK AT MY OPINION nonsense. It's like you're trying to yell the other guy down.
That was an accident. My apologies.


Great reading skills. That's from the original post, too, not some obscure comment buried in the thread.
Multiple other comments state that she would rather more female generation regardless of how the backers themselves wanted it. Their justification being "IT'S DA FUTURRRRRRRRE"


This is inherently bad? Sexism is an actual issue in society. If people think media is being sexist, they should call it out.
When it's a small indie studio and because of something that is blatantly not sexist (Given how you can change the options and how disposable crew are anyway) just because there aren't enough women in there (You know, like a true Anita Sarkeesian daughter) then yes. The burden of proof is always with the accuser, and we have to assume all claims are false until proven otherwise.

Thus, any so called "Boycott" of Subset Studios (Especially one that hurts the studio itself) would be wrong, especially when the game itself isn't sexist, even if the developers themselves are (In which case, you're hating something because the creators have a different belief then you, and it's as stupid as it sounds).

Same as above. On paper, no, it's not that important that some random indie game doesn't have equal gender distribution in its NPCs. Then again, on paper, most things in any game aren't important.
Nothing among these NPCs is special. They are disposable. Humans are common and uninteresting (Regardless of gender) and no amount of women is going to change that. It's only going to piss off the people who paid $100 to get their name and person in the game. All for one special snowflake.

Goody.
I'm not seeing any criticism in the comments. I'm seeing some people disagreeing. Do you know what the word criticism means? You seem fond of using it even though you're not very good at giving it.
The blatant allegations of trolling would be a good start. That said I think I'm referring more to protest against her idea then criticism, so my mistake.


Yes. She stated her opinion and asked for thoughts on it. There's no inherent argument to be had. The fact that she's not squabbling with everyone who disagrees with her opinion is a sign of maturity.
Stated her opinion

Accused the game of being sexist

Proposed a boycott.

She hasn't earned the right to look away from such criticism, especially when she could seriously hurt these developers if the right people got this. That's a tad far-fetched though, but it's still a serious allegation and shouldn't be tossed around because there aren't enough breasticles to your liking. I could say XCOM is sexist because there aren't enough men.

That would be pretty un-grounded and far-fetched though right? Same here. Just a matter of perspective.
I liked this quote: "It's not okay to make fun of me for something I think is important." No, it's really not. People get to express their opinions on social media platforms. It's a great thing about this day and age. If all you can do is mock someone without offering any actual valid criticism (not that there is any to offer on a pure opinion), you really have nothing intelligent to add to that discussion.
See, that's not what people where doing though. No one ever attacked her (She just wanted to deflect any protest with catch all statements), they attacked either her proposition, or her opinion. But never her, herself.


Her question and subsequent responses are perfectly reasonable. Calling her a fascist and sexist (feminazis, in modern vernacular, usually mean people who essentially want female supremacy- just wanted to let you know since you seem to bandy around words without knowing their actual meaning) is really not at all supported by that thread. Lord, you probably think girls have cooties too, huh?
No, but I keep my hazard suit on just in case (That and Ebola. Cuz every city in America's getting it nao [Just go the flow]).

Anyways, yes I know what feminazi means. I might toss it around loosely (Like misogynist is tossed around loosely, but no one talks about that huh?), but the vibe I get from the thread is:

"More women pls. I dont liek how it iz dont attk meh"

Seems pretty accurate. Not to mention the fact that her main justification of the proposition is just because. And the fact that this is time that I'd rather see on a better game or new game (That has no effect on gameplay. All humans suck) means that she's doing nothing beneficial to development or gameplay. And thus her opinion is open to critique as a cosmetic effect. Which is also worthless because you can change the skins to you liking anyway, so the entire argument is moot. The simple existence of the proposition is my beef.

Again, it was mostly the "Are these people sexist?" and the "Should we boycott" that set me off the most.

Re: Polygon gives Beyonetta 2 a 7.5 because of sexualization

Posted: Fri Nov 21, 2014 2:14 am
by Endoperez
Phoenixwarrior141 wrote: Stated her opinion

Accused the game of being sexist

Proposed a boycott.

...

Again, it was mostly the "Are these people sexist?" and the "Should we boycott" that set me off the most.
Can you give a direct quote on the boycott, or the part where she accuses makers if being sexist? I can't find anything on the boycott. I only find this rhetorical question that she asks (probably because she's used to being branded like you just did...). The sexism we can argue based on her actual comment and stance.
Cassandra wrote:So you feel that I see this as, like, an obvious sign that Subset Games is blatantly sexist and should be boycotted?
Also page 4, where she agrees that changing the proportional chances of kickstarter names to value female backers isn't a good solution.

I see a reasonable human arguing her point, being taken for a troll, ridiculed, her position argued against, her accepting criticism and counterpoints but not ridicule... That's not wrong.

In fact, I think I'll have to go in and give her a few words of support because she's gotten an undeserved amount of flak. I don't know if there's a fair way to fix this after the fact, but I think it's something to keep in mind for future game productions.

Re: Polygon gives Beyonetta 2 a 7.5 because of sexualization

Posted: Fri Nov 21, 2014 12:38 pm
by Phoenixwarrior141
Endoperez wrote:
Can you give a direct quote on the boycott, or the part where she accuses makers if being sexist? I can't find anything on the boycott. I only find this rhetorical question that she asks (probably because she's used to being branded like you just did...). The sexism we can argue based on her actual comment and stance.
"So you feel that I see this as, like, an obvious sign that Subset Games is blatantly sexist and should be boycotted? That I'm making too big a deal out of this?"

One of the first five comments.

In fact, I think I'll have to go in and give her a few words of support because she's gotten an undeserved amount of flak. I don't know if there's a fair way to fix this after the fact, but I think it's something to keep in mind for future game productions.
It's deserved. She proposed a boycott of a small studio for things far out of their control and made a serious allegation. There is no reason she SHOULDN'T be getting flak.

She deserves it. Especially if she won't admit she was wrong.