B-b-b-ban me!

[Armored Wolf]

Yo, Assault, are you going your own bold/special text format now?

[TheBigCheese]

New users coming to this forum are going to be so confused.

[RobLikesBrunch]

New users coming to this forum are going to so confused.

Even that was confusing.

[TheBigCheese]

Thus my point still stands.

[Blorx]

So Jeff isn't important?

Jeff is understanding D:

Potential buyers/investors aren't. >.>

[Assaultman67]

Yo, Assault, are you going your own bold/special text format now?

I'm simply helping out Renegade_Turner by diluting newcomer hate and testing my theories ... see this thread for details ...

[Jeff]

I think it's the opposite. If you ban people, they will come back in greater numbers and harass you as an unstoppable horde. If you don't ban people, instead of sensing weakness, they see it as more like "huh, that's weird, maybe this community is actually pretty cool".

[Assaultman67]

If you lay out a fair set of rules (ordering from most important to least important) ... and make no special exceptions for anyone, then it will be fine. Its not like they have room to argue, the use of forums is a priviledge, and to keep the priviledge they have to follow the rules for the forum. If that's not fair i don't know what is.


In general, when I do moderating I try to keep a "professional" sense ... be helpful to new users, spectate potential flame topics without getting involved with either side, and use my moderation power sparingly (not abusing your powers).

When it comes to punishing people, it helps to give people a warning or two for minor offenses and a insta-ban for major ones (racial comments, porn, sometimes discussion of how to do illegal things). The guy who started this thread should have been insta-banned, he in fact wanted to be banned.

If you abuse your powers such as banning people that disagree with you, then you will have problems.

Although, I think your two biggest problems is generally finding the time to police the forums and opposing the status quo ... people already have become accustomed to knowing they can get away with almost anything, thus they will wine about new enforcement of rules (this should be settled by a very public broadcast that the rules will be enforced much more heavily via a announcement thread and by a notice someone has to accept before they can post ...

Basically warn people you're going to do it, and then DO IT if they keep pushing the rules.

Edit: oh and follow the rules you set or don't expect others to follow them ... double standards will piss people off

[TheBigCheese]

If you lay out a fair set of rules (ordering from most important to least important) ... and make no special exceptions for anyone, then it will be fine. Its not like they have room to argue, the use of forums is a priviledge, and to keep the priviledge they have to follow the rules for the forum. If that's not fair i don't know what is.

I completely disagree. In my experience with forums (and I visit a lot of them), you have to fit your rulebook to your community. A strict 'by the book' moderating ethic works great on forums with similarly strict forums (army vets, etc.), but trying to impose a similar ethic on a laid back community such as Wolfire would completely kill the laid back feel.

I've seen an entire community (>300 regulars) destroyed by a similar action. A new admin was admitted who was in the army. He managed to convince the rest of the admin staff (I was the only one against) that they should create a list of rules that exactly spell out what you can, and cannot do. Soon after a well established member made a racial comment, and was promptly insta-banned. No warnings; he had broken a rule, the punishment was a ban.

The problem was that a strict ruleset was instantly imposed upon an extremely laid back community. As I left the forum, the community itself was falling apart (banned members created side groups, enticing members to leave and join theirs) I haven't gone back since.

I'm not saying that was the only problem with the forum, but the extremely strict moderation system that was imposed was a huge contributor to the eventual downfall of the forum. Now, I doubt that Wolfire forum would fall apart, having the solid base of Overgrowth, but from all my experience, I certainly can't see it helping.

[Assaultman67]

That's why the rules should be fair and heavily publicized before they are put into effect ... otherwise people will bitch about how they were unjustly punished ...

You can't tell me that you really think a place that lets people post racial slurs and porn will be a better place? These rules are meant to be fair to everyone and make the forums a friendlier place.

and Its not like they're really adding any rules ... just enforcing them so im not sure why that's a problem

I've moderated stricter forums than this and i've never had any problems with it as long as you approach it fairly ... being fair is key.

[Renegade_Turner]

I'm simply helping out Renegade_Turner by diluting newcomer hate and testing my theories ...

What you're actually doing is ruining all the fun. I want the beration. How dare you take that away from me. Stop being so bothersome, you're sharing all the hate that should be directed at me!

You can't tell me that you really think a place that lets people post racial slurs and porn will be a better place? These rules are meant to be fair to everyone and make the forums a friendlier place.

Who says a totalitarian-esque administrative regime on these forums would make them a better place? I think it would be degrading. I had enough of my mother telling me what I was allowed to do when I was 12, I don't need to be babysat on a public forum.

[Sandurz]

But I think you forget Ren, some people do.

[Renegade_Turner]

Think of it this way. A parent spends all their life grounding their child and not letting them out of the house. The child is socially retarded, and has a lot of pent-up willingness to find out about what being young is all about. However, their over-eager and over-zealous parents have crippled the child's early chance to grasp the gritty aspects of what being a young person are all about, smoking, alcohol, sex, bullying, fighting, drugs etc.

The child leaves home. What happens?

The child probably goes to college, a good college, because his parents made sure with their totatalitarian parenting regime that the child got good grades in school. However, the child sees this escape to college as a source of freedom. They're given all this freedom and potential to do what they like, but have never been tutored on how to do it. Most people in this situation go overboard, go out drinking all the time and do a lot of drugs. It's a way of rebelling against what your parents expect from you. I knew a guy who was like that, so I've seen the results first-hand. His parents imposed a curfew of 11 o clock (even at weekends) up until he was like 18/19. Then he went to college, he now drinks all the time and goes out far too much.

Now, apply this to the forums. A totalitarian regime is set up, only it's administrating this time instead of parenting, and it's banning instead of grounding and curfews. The banning and locking of threads and so on only instigates further disobedience, the offenders become more persistent, deriving satisfaction from disrupting the forums. All of that could be avoided by simply letting the problem sort itself out.

Someone makes a fucked-up mistake that the community doesn't take to? People will let them know. If they keep on doing things which upset a lot of people, they'll feel like an outcast and probably leave the forums themselves, in search of a forum which is more suitable to their mindset. On the flipside, they learn from the mistake based on the community's reactions, and amend their behaviour to a more acceptable level. This is the more likely scenario.

Now do you see why heavy administration and bannings are unnecessary?

[h2ostra]

Think of it this way. A parent spends all their life grounding their child and not letting them out of the house. The child is socially retarded, and has a lot of pent-up willingness to find out about what being young is all about. However, their over-eager and over-zealous parents have crippled the child's early chance to grasp the gritty aspects of what being a young person are all about, smoking, alcohol, sex, bullying, fighting, drugs etc.

The child leaves home. What happens?

The child probably goes to college, a good college, because his parents made sure with their totatalitarian parenting regime that the child got good grades in school. However, the child sees this escape to college as a source of freedom. They're given all this freedom and potential to do what they like, but have never been tutored on how to do it. Most people in this situation go overboard, go out drinking all the time and do a lot of drugs. It's a way of rebelling against what your parents expect from you. I knew a guy who was like that, so I've seen the results first-hand. His parents imposed a curfew of 11 o clock (even at weekends) up until he was like 18/19. Then he went to college, he now drinks all the time and goes out far too much.

Now, apply this to the forums. A totalitarian regime is set up, only it's administrating this time instead of parenting, and it's banning instead of grounding and curfews. The banning and locking of threads and so on only instigates further disobedience, the offenders become more persistent, deriving satisfaction from disrupting the forums. All of that could be avoided by simply letting the problem sort itself out.

Someone makes a fucked-up mistake that the community doesn't take to? People will let them know. If they keep on doing things which upset a lot of people, they'll feel like an outcast and probably leave the forums themselves, in search of a forum which is more suitable to their mindset. On the flipside, they learn from the mistake based on the community's reactions, and amend their behaviour to a more acceptable level. This is the more likely scenario.

Now do you see why heavy administration and bannings are unnecessary?

Agreed.
For examples of this in action, see Armored_Wolf's apology, and Devilsclub's (repeated) departure from the forums.

[Sandurz]

I'm not saying that we need to make a totalitarian administration, I was just stating that some people NEED reprimands from administration so that they'll stop. Otherwise I agree with you that in most cases, it'll sort itself out.